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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: amelialen on Tuesday 11 March 25 01:41 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone know anything about a place called Kilmartin’s Land or Kilmartin’s Buildings in the Carfin area (circa 1890s/1900s)? The earliest record I have of my great-great grandparents after they emigrated to Scotland from Congress Poland is their marriage certificate from 1904; they married in Carfin, and their current residence was listed as Kilmartin’s Land. Unfortunately, I’ve been unable to locate any maps or specific information on this place other than a few newspapers articles confirming that the properties housed a lot of Polish miners and their families. Please let me know if you know anything!
- Amelia
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Just a guess - a William KILMARTIN had a licence for a public house in Carfin around this time, perhaps they were staying there?
Modified to add:
Maybe not. Looking at the newspaper articles I can see, they don't seem to reference a public house. As you say, some "Kilmartin's Land" ,"Kilmartin's Buildings" or "Kilmartin's Place".
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I actually think you’re onto something! I just did a little more digging on William Kilmartin and here’s what I found:
— He was a wine & spirit merchant who owned a spirit store on New Stevenson Road, Carfin.
— He owned a public house on New Stevenson Road, Carfin.
Valuation rolls for the Parish of Bothwell confirmed that William owned both properties from roughly 1905 – 1925. However, my great-great grandparents’ marriage certificate confirms he owned his public house in 1904, and he is still listed as a propertier in 1934 (via a newspaper article), so I’d say 1904 – 1934 is more accurate. An article in 1905 also reported that he had requested a renewal of his public-house license.
On top of this, I found some articles referencing “Kilmartin’s Land” as Mr Kilmartin’s property; I suspect that maybe this is an umbrella term for neighbouring properties he owned; perhaps his house and spirit shop were connected since they were both located on New Stevenson Road.
One other article mentions a highway opposite Kilmartin’s Land, which sounds about right for New Stevenson Road in Carfin.
- Amelia :)
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1901 Census Address
Kilmartin's Land, New Stevenston Road, Bothwell, Holytown, Lanarkshire
There are 22 households with the above address - cannot find an instance of "Buildings" or "Place".
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The term "Land", meaning "a land of houses" was commonly used to describe a tenement building of any size or, a row of single-story houses of any size. The use of the word "land" was gradually replaced by either "building" or "place" as the century went on.
New Stevenston Road nowadays is a shadow of its former self! It is now a dead-end street since the new road infrastructure was introduced some years ago. Carfin still manages to cling on to its village feel but it has gone from having 2 or 3 pubs to becoming a "dry" area.
I will ask some of my elderly friends in Carfin if they could perhaps shed some light on Kilmartin's pub or tenement building.
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These are the available 25-inch maps for Carfin, which do not show street names until the 1939 revision, where New Steventson Road runs NW from the cross roads.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/82892598 1939
https://maps.nls.uk/view/82892595 1910
https://maps.nls.uk/view/82892592 1897
https://maps.nls.uk/view/74951034 1859
From 1897 there are two PH's on the road. One PH is fairly isolated, the 1910 map is clearer that the other PH has a passageway at the side, a large yard behind with other buildings and rear access to 4 houses facing the road. To the SE of that, running down to the crossroads, there is a large group of very small houses, some on the road, some in a yard behind. However these were already there in 1859, and there are more than 22.
The group of properties to the NW of the PH has two more yards making about 22 houses in total. I suggest looking at the census in 1901 or 1911 for the whole road and try to match the address pattern with what you see on the 1910 map.
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This shows the area in 1957. Many of the properties of interest have gone, but there is a PH in a similar position. The first yard area is now numbered 39-71. The other PH is numbered 128.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.0&lat=55.80463&lon=-3.96319&layers=258&b=ESRIWorld&o=100
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I don't think this takes us much further, but here is what I have found:
There is a newspaper item from 1919 (Motherwell Times, 14th November) referring to the silver wedding of Mr and Mrs Quigley of Kilmartin's Land, Carfin. A later item, from 1940 (Motherwell Times, 12th January), reports the death of Annie McKendrick aged 64–the widow of the late Patrick Quigley–of Kilmartin's Land, Carfin.
In the 1915 valuation rolls I find Patrick Quigley, miner, as the occupant of a house at Carfin. The proprietor is William Kilmartin, spirit merchant, Woodside House, Hamilton.
The order of the records in 1915 is:
Byres Knowe [Carfin Byres, just to the south?]
then a block of 13 occupancies, mostly miners, (prop. William Kilmartin) starting with a spirit shop occupied by William Blair
then a block of 4 occupancies including Patrick Quigley (prop. William Kilmartin) starting with a spirit shop which looks to be occupied by William Kilmartin
then Union Place
In 1921 the Quigley family is indeed found at Kilmartin's Land [there are 16 households in the census with this address]
The entries for Kilmartin's Land are preceded by Back Row and followed by Mason's Land [the 1915 valuation has proprietor John Mason, grocer and miner, occupying a house and shop in the block of 13)
When Patrick Quigley died in 1934 his home address was listed as 67 New Stevenston Road, even though his widow's address in 1940 is Kilmartin's Land. This supports the suggestion that Hamilton's Land was on New Stevenston Road.
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Byresknowe is an area of Carfin, Carfin Byres was the farm (now houses).
A cousin of my mother's married Willie Blair, his father was the publican mentioned in the above post. (William Blair). Here is a photograph taken at Union Place about 1932.
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Does that mean that you know where Union Place was?
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Does that mean that you know where Union Place was?
I always assumed it was part of New Stevenston Road? However, I have just spoken to an old friend who is Carfin born & bred and she has informed me that her parent's first home was in Kilmartin's Building. Standing at Carfin Cross looking down New Stevenston Road, it was on the left-hand side of the street, about 150 yards from the Cross. She thinks there were 2 pubs there. She is having a look for old photographs which she may have.
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Going from that information, looking at the maps posted by MollyC and incorporating the facts that the Quigley address was in a separate small block I think Hamilton’s Land was the short group associated with a PH just past the empty ground.
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There were two pubs on that part of New Stevenston Road in the 1950s but I would assume that they had been there for many years before that. One was called Redpath's Bar and the other, which I believe was Kilmartin's, was (again, in the 1950s) called Reilly's Bar but, the locals always called it "The Middle Shop".
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My friend has just sent me three pictures of old Carfin, probably, looking at the style of the bus, from late 1950s - early 60s.
This first picture is Carfin Cross coming from Motherwell, with the beginning of New Stevenston Road on the left.
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The second picture is New Stevenston Road with Carfin Cross just out of sight on the right.
The building marked with the red dot is Kilmartin's Building, looking very much as though it is about to be demolished. Not a good angle I'm afraid. The little building marked with the green dot is what we used to call the "Old Mens Hut". Probably not very p c nowadays! The building opposite the mens shed was called White's Building, perhaps that may show up on one of the maps as a guide?
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Third and last picture.
This is coming from New Stevenston towards Carfin Cross. The Redpath Bar on the left with the bus just outside. The dark gable-end of Kilmartin's Building is further up, on the right.
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Hi amelialen, were your grandparents married in the Catholic church at Carfin?
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Hi,
Thank you so much for the photos! Their marriage certificate doesn’t specify which church they were married at/registered with, but I believe it may have been Sir Francis Xavier’s Church in Carfin as they were Roman Catholic.
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The pictures are very helpful. The first two pictures seem to show the Carfin Cross corner with an open space where the small houses had been demolished. The block of buildings with a red dot included the pub at the far end. What appeared to be four houses on the maps up to 1939 seems more likely to be two tenement buildings with staircases projecting from the rear. The street numbering in 1957 shows there were 14 properties within three adjoining buildings, including the pub - Kilmartin's/Reilly's. So perhaps there had been another 8 beyond the pub, of which only 2 were still standing by 1957, to total 22.
In the third picture the Redpath Bar is the pub numbered 128 on the 1957 map, apparently joined with 126 as well, but standing separately from other buildings, on the opposite side of the road.
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amelialen, I think you would mean Saint Francis Xavier ;D
This is the interior of the church as it was in your grandparents time, it was built in the 1860's. They would have been married at morning mass, perhaps with one or two other couples, they didn't have special wedding masses in those days. Sadly, this lovely little church was demolished about 1972 and a much larger church was erected on the opposite side of the road.
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This is the outside of that church. On the extreme left is the parish hall, still standing (it now has a front door where the windows were) and is known as "The Little Flower Hall", named so as a tribute to
Saint Thérèse of Lisieux. The large parish house is still standing, it is still the same, outside and inside! It is now occupied by the Spiritian Fathers, (The Holy Ghost Fathers) a religious order of priests, who have been there since 1973, after the the parish priest moved across to the new house.
The space where the church was is now a car park.