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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: cleverus on Monday 10 March 25 10:16 GMT (UK)

Title: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: cleverus on Monday 10 March 25 10:16 GMT (UK)
Hi
I am trying to locate the Navy record for my great grandfather Jan Erik Norberg, born 2 August 1860
Norrsund, Vaddo, Stockholm, Sweden.
Father: Mathias Harg Norberg - born 23 Feb 1834 in Soderby-Karl, Uppland, Sweden
Mother: Johanna Andersdotter Ostman - born 16 Aug 1837 in Vaddo, Stockholm, Sweden

We have very little information about his life in Sweden and have varying stories about how he came to New Zealand
1. He jumped ship in Nelson, NZ at the age of 11 with his brother
2. He was a seaman and did not get back onto the ship in Nelson, NZ so the ship left without him.

I would appreciate any help in gaining more information about him.

Many thanks Jenny
Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Tuesday 11 March 25 00:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Jenny and welcome to RootsChat,

Jan Erik Norberg was recorded not present at the Examination in 1887. So he was at least 17 years old when he jumped ship. There is no evidence of him being a seaman at 11. Also there is no evidence that his brother was a seaman.
I'll look around for any seaman records.

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/00032733_00085#?c=&m=&s=&cv=84&xywh=-61%2C703%2C5473%2C2700


I took a look at his father's probate from 1922 and it was recorded that Jan Erik was living in New Zealand for over 20 years and was most probably deceased.


Ian




Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: cleverus on Tuesday 11 March 25 17:50 GMT (UK)
Hi Ian
Thank you so much for that. Are you able to give me any information about his apparently very short Navy career.
When did he join the Navy and what ship was he on when he jumped etc.

Many thanks Jenny
Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 12 March 25 00:03 GMT (UK)
You're welcome Jenny.
This record shows when he enrolled as a seaman in 1871. This is this evidence of him being a seaman at 11 years old. I cannot unfortunately explain what the notes mean. It will be difficult if not impossible to find out about him jumping ship. I'll look around and see what pops up.
The minister had written in the Examination Book that he was missing from 1887.

Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 12 March 25 00:11 GMT (UK)
This is the Norberg family from the Väddö Parish Examination Books.....


1860 - Väddö Parish Examination Book
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0049374_00197#?c=&m=&s=&cv=196&xywh=548%2C-33%2C5026%2C2479

1880 - Väddö Parish Examination Book
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/00032729_00078#?c=&m=&s=&cv=77&xywh=-78%2C1023%2C6340%2C3128

1885 - Väddö Parish Examination Book
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/00032731_00078#?c=&m=&s=&cv=77&xywh=21%2C471%2C4892%2C2413

1890 - Väddö Parish Examination Book
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/00032733_00085#?c=&m=&s=&cv=84&xywh=-166%2C83%2C5473%2C2700

1895 - Väddö Parish Examination Book
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/00032735_00080#?c=&m=&s=&cv=79&xywh=-100%2C18%2C5159%2C2545

1895 - Väddö Parish Examination Book - Missing persons book
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/00032735_00229#?c=&m=&s=&cv=228&xywh=-184%2C1405%2C5849%2C2886

1895 - Väddö Parish Examination Book - Missing persons book
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/00032592_00259#?c=&m=&s=&cv=258&xywh=-258%2C961%2C7021%2C3463


Ian


Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 12 March 25 00:14 GMT (UK)
It looks like he changed his surname to Mattsen (Mattsson) following the patronymic system. I have seen this before when seamen jump ship.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/171666785/jan-eric-mattsen


Ian


Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: cleverus on Wednesday 12 March 25 00:31 GMT (UK)
Hi
Thank you so much for helping me with any information about Jan Eric Norberg.
Can you please check the following information:
He was a cook on schooner 'Henno', salary 16 Swedish crowns a month.
Church records say he moved from the family in 1882, unknown where he was in 1887, 1888 and 1889. He lost his job in the North of Sweden, in Pitea 1894.

Is the Examination Book the Church records?

When he jumped ship he changed his surname to Mattsen (son of Mathias).
He lived an extremely tough life, he could speak English but not read or write in English, lost his leg below the knee while driving a horse and was thrown from the cart, had a very turbulent marriage to Caroline Morgan and all their 7 children were sent to an orphanage as they were taken off them by the Police.
He died in Dannevirke on 28 April 1934.
With this further information from you he was a seaman at 11 but may not have come to New Zealand for quite a while after that.

Look forward to hearing if you find anything else.

Many thanks
Jenny
Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 12 March 25 09:11 GMT (UK)

Is the Examination Book the Church records?


Yes the Examination Books are the Church records. The minister basically examined the knowledge and ability to read the bible etc.


Ian

Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 12 March 25 10:20 GMT (UK)

He lost his job in the North of Sweden, in Pitea 1894.



1895 - Väddö Parish Examination Book - Missing persons book
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/00032735_00229#?c=&m=&s=&cv=228&xywh=-184%2C1405%2C5849%2C2886


Do you know if he lost his job?

He was a seaman and he worked on all types of ships in different ports. He wasn't in the Navy. He worked on merchant ships.

The 1895 page from Väddö states that, as I see it, he was recorded as being at the Seaman's Institute (Sjömanshus) in Piteå in 1894.


Ian


Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 12 March 25 10:25 GMT (UK)

Can you please check the following information:
He was a cook on schooner 'Henno', salary 16 Swedish crowns a month.


I have found that record and a couple more too. All with the surname Mattsson.
It doesn't actually look like he changed his name when he jumped ship. His first record as a seaman he had the surname Norberg. I wonder why he changed to Mattsson. I wonder if he had problems within his family.

Ian


Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 13 March 25 08:58 GMT (UK)
Hi Jenny,
Would you like the documents I have found?

Ian

Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: cleverus on Sunday 23 March 25 10:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Ian

Yes please, I would love any documents you have been able to find.  I am so grateful to have been able to find any information.

Many thanks Jenny
Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: cleverus on Sunday 23 March 25 10:58 GMT (UK)
Hi Ian (again, sorry)

If you have records of him being enrolled as a seaman in 1871, making him 11 years old. Does that mean he had joined the Navy at that age or did he actually join at around 17 years of age.

Thanks Jenny
Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: cleverus on Friday 28 March 25 11:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Ian

Yes please, I would love any documents you have been able to find.  I am so grateful to have been able to find any information.

Many thanks Jenny
Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Sunday 30 March 25 14:04 BST (UK)
I have sent you a PM.

Ian

Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Sunday 30 March 25 19:46 BST (UK)
............. I can translate them for you. I'll get back to you.

Ian

Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Sunday 30 March 25 20:02 BST (UK)
Deleted.
Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Monday 31 March 25 11:42 BST (UK)
Hi Ian (again, sorry)

If you have records of him being enrolled as a seaman in 1871, making him 11 years old. Does that mean he had joined the Navy at that age or did he actually join at around 17 years of age.

Thanks Jenny

The record posted in reply #3 is unfortunately not him. Having looked closer at the record I've realised that this is another Johan Erik Norberg with the same mother's name. This Johan was older too. I'm sorry about that.
As I said earlier I didn't find any evidence of him being a seaman at 11 years old in the church books.

Ian

Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: cleverus on Thursday 03 April 25 10:42 BST (UK)
Hi Ian

Thank you so much, I would really appreciate the help with translation.

I see you have sent a  message on Facebook, sorry I can't seem to see it anywhere.

Thanks Jenny
Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 03 April 25 11:01 BST (UK)
I haven't sent a Facebook message. I sent you a PM through RootsChat.

Ian

Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: cleverus on Thursday 03 April 25 11:14 BST (UK)
Hi Ian
Sorry about that, not exactly sure how to find a PM.
Thanks Jenny
Title: Re: Jan Erik Norberg, Seaman Swedish Navy 1880's
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 03 April 25 12:37 BST (UK)
No worries Jenny, I sent you the link to the images to you as a PM (Private Message).

Ian