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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: dippitybix on Sunday 09 March 25 18:43 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
Could anyone assist in deciphering the birth place on the below image please? It's possibly my 4x Great Grandfather but I am not sure yet I need to do some further digging. The first work looks like Lancaster to me, the other two words are transcribed on ancestry as London Stone but I'm thinking this can't be right?
(https://i.ibb.co/fY3CbrMQ/Screenshot-2025-03-09-at-18-38-42.png) (https://ibb.co/kgLhpqKM)
image uploader (https://imgbb.com/)
Link https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/33483956?mark=7b22746f6b656e223a22463635795548317335424d63645a6b677a456246526f657435422f7a7a355a6e48634f6c3769685a452b383d222c22746f6b656e5f76657273696f6e223a225632227d
Many thanks
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Is this the View Full Records transcript that comes up on your link that you think is wrong ???
Why do you think its wrong?
Do you have any more details you could share?
Name George Thompson
Gender Male
Age 53
Relation Head
Estimated Birth Year 1808
Spouse's Name Elizabeth Thompson
Where born London, Stone, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Chelsea St Luke
Ecclesiastical parish Kensall Green St John
Town Kensal
County/Island Middlesex
Country England
Registration District Chelsea
Sub-registration district Chelsea North East
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If you click on your link and press View Full Records you will see this:
Name George Thompson
Gender Male
Age 53
Relation Head
Estimated Birth Year 1808
Spouse's Name Elizabeth Thompson
Where born London, Stone, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Chelsea St Luke
Ecclesiastical parish Kensall Green St John
Town Kensal
County/Island Middlesex
Country England
Registration District Chelsea
Sub-registration district Chelsea North East
Thank you, yes I've got that but is London Stone a place in Lancaster? I've googled it and sadly that doesn't seem to confirm either way... ??? ??? ???
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Lancashire?
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OK I see what the confusion is, I have also Goggled "London, Stone, Lancashire, England" with no joy
Sorry.
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It may be possib;e that the word 'Lancaster' actually refers to the County of Lancashire. (Sometimes in the past - Lancaster was used for Lancashire).
However - I cannot make sense of the other words IF the first word does mean Lancashire.
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Also the intro to this says
"George Thompson was born about 1808 in Lancashire, England. In 1861, he was 53 years old and lived in Chelsea, Middlesex, England, with his wife, Elizabeth, 3 sons, and 2 daughters. "
Chelsea, Middlesex ???
Edit:
Chelsea historically formed a manor and parish in the Ossulstone hundred of Middlesex, which became the Metropolitan Borough of Chelsea in 1900
Which brings into play the word "Ossulstone" being miss transcribed as "London Stone" ??? ???
Very long shot I know ;D
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Thompson is such a difficult name to research. What I'm struggling with is determining who my 4x great grandfather actually was.
My 3x Great Grandfather Thomas Thompson married Harriet Mary Loveridge 17 Feb 1861 St Pancras Parish Church - he gives his father's name as George Thompson and the occupation is recorded as 'Dead'.
There are trees on ancestry that say his mother was an Elizabeth Rider - I bought a digital birth image from GRO below but I am not 100% sure if this is him or not - with such a common name. The tree on ancestry states George was married to Elizabeth Rider and then Charlotte Parker but the census records they have attached to their tree doesn't make sense.
(https://i.ibb.co/Y7bLkZsz/Thomas-Thompson-BC-1841.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0jQGMtbg)
George married Elizabeth Rider in 1828 and then Charlotte Parker in 1850.
They have attached census for 1851 of him living with wife Charlotte in Westminster and then in 1861 with a wife Elizabeth in 1861 suppose he could have married a 3rd time to another Elizabeth. This is why I want to verify for myself before going down the wrong path as I have previously done with my Thompson line.
They have George date of birth 1807 Gainsborough Lincolnshire.
I am totally confused :P
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Have you found him in 1851 please?
I am struggling to locate him on that census - using his approx birth year, and a location of Middlesex.
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Have you found him in 1851 please?
I am struggling to locate him on that census - using his approx birth year, and a location of Middlesex.
I don't know if this is him or not but this is what another tree on ancestry has attached to him.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8860/records/44510?tid=192722009&pid=232511062266&ssrc=pt
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Have you found him in 1851 please?
I am struggling to locate him on that census - using his approx birth year, and a location of Middlesex.
I don't know if this is him or not but this is what another tree on ancestry has attached to him.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8860/records/44510?
tid=192722009&pid=232511062266&ssrc=pt
They both have him down as a "Blacksmith" or "Smithy" so possible him.
1851 Census; Where born Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, England
1861 Census; Where born London, Stone, Lancashire, England
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Marriage of George Thompson (a black smith) and Elizabeth Rider 1828
In the parish Church of Manchester, County of Lancaster
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/2576/records/44627443
Boo
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Have you found him in 1851 please?
I am struggling to locate him on that census - using his approx birth year, and a location of Middlesex.
I don't know if this is him or not but this is what another tree on ancestry has attached to him.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8860/records/44510?
tid=192722009&pid=232511062266&ssrc=pt
They both have him down as a "Blacksmith" or "Smithy" so possible him.
1851 Census; Where born Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, England
Also listed as a Blacksmith on the birth registration image I posted on the previous age too. It's the place of birth that is causing the confusion. I suppose being a Blacksmith he would have travelled around?
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There is a baptism record for an Eliza Ann Thompson showing parents George and Charlotte occupation Smith baptised 6th October 1850
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/62467/records/427247
Birth record on GRO 1843 S Quarter Westminster mother's maiden name Rider.
Could a child be baptised under step mothers name after death of actual mother?
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just going back to the Lincolnshire birthplace - interestingly there is a Londonthorpe in that County!
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The 1861 Census attached to the trees has him married to "Elizabeth" but it should be Charlotte?
On the 1851 census George the son of Elizabeth and George is living with an aunt and uncle Edward and Elizabeth Harris and they have place of birth as Lincolnshire, Edward as "Culverthorpe" and Elizabeth as Gainsborough
There is a baptism record for an Eliza Ann Thompson showing parents George and Charlotte occupation Smith baptised 6th October 1850
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/62467/records/427247
Birth record on GRO 1843 S Quarter Westminster mother's maiden name Rider.
Could a child be baptised under step mothers name after death of actual mother?
Looks like both wives had a daughter called Eliza, the earlier one dying as a baby.
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The 1861 Census attached to the trees has him married to "Elizabeth" but it should be Charlotte?
On the 1851 census George the son of Elizabeth and George is living with an aunt and uncle Edward and Elizabeth Harris and they have place of birth as Lincolnshire, Edward as "Culverthorpe" and Elizabeth as Gainsborough
Yes the Elizabeth instead of Charlotte is what made me question the accuracy of the tree but perhaps it is right.
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Marriage of George Thompson (a black smith) and Elizabeth Rider 1828
In the parish Church of Manchester, County of Lancaster
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/2576/records/44627443
Boo
The Parish Church of Manchester is actually The Cathedral,near Victoria Station - area Blackfriars .Dedication to St. Mary and St. Denis.
Very close to the very dreadful area described as The Worst slum in Europe, by Engels, not made so by the residents but built so by greedy mill owners to house the workers in their mills, such as Arkwright.
Viktoria.
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This gro birth registration throws up some info. We know Thomas Thompson was born 1842 with mmn Rider. By 1851 census he has 3 younger siblings, James, Edward and Eliza. At some point between 1842 1850 when George married Charlotte, Elizabeth nee' Rider has died. Address on birth cert as per 1851 census. NOTE mmn Snow
SS
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This gro birth registration throws up some info. We know Thomas Thompson was born 1842 with mmn Rider. By 1851 census he has 3 younger siblings, James, Edward and Eliza. At some point between 1842 1850 when George married Charlotte, Elizabeth nee' Rider has died. Address on birth cert as per 1851 census. NOTE mmn Snow
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Interesting thank you, so Charlotte was also married previously.
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Old Pye Street was a very rough area
https://londonist.com/london/history/in-search-of-the-devil-s-acre
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I didn't say she was previously married :) cannot find a marriage or the births yet for James c1845 and Edward c 1849.
SS
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I didn't say she was previously married :) cannot find a marriage or the births yet for James c1845 and Edward c 1849.
SS
I just noticed on the GRO birth that it says Charlotte Thompson late Parker formerly Snow and wondered what that meant.
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I am puzzled. Going back to your assumed starting point of Thomas Thompson you say
My 3x Great Grandfather Thomas Thompson married Harriet Mary Loveridge 17 Feb 1861 St Pancras Parish Church - he gives his father's name as George Thompson and the occupation is recorded as 'Dead'.
I've just looked at the image and that is correct.
BUT as the 1861 census was dated 7 April 1861.
I can't understand how anyone has found 'your' 4x G Grandfather George Thompson on that census as he had died sometime between 30 March 1851 (date of the 1851 census) and 17 Feb 1861?
Boo
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As Tickettyboo has pointed out I feel we could be looking at the incorrect George Thompson. IF
dippitybix family line is Thomas Thomas & Harriet Mary Loveridge who married 17th February 1861 then the Thomas's father George we have been following was/is very much alive on the 17th April 1861.
SS
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cannot find a marriage or the births yet for James c1845 and Edward c 1849.
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Possible birth for Edward born in Westminster, Edward Tompson 2nd quarter 1849, mmn Rider. There is a possible death for an Elizabeth Thompson in Westminster in Sept quarter of 1849, age is 39 so doesn't quite match.
There is also a possible death for Edward (aged 3), 2nd quarter 1852 in Westminster .
Cant find James.
he gives his father's name as George Thompson and the occupation is recorded as 'Dead'. As he was underage, maybe he thought his father wouldn't give permission.
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Re Charlotte, late Parker formerly Snow
There is a birth registration in Westminster, Sep 1846
Parker, Thomas
mmn Snow
And a baptism of a Thomas Parker at St Margaret that year, parents Thomas and Charlotte (but I don't have the details)
Where are Thomas and Harriet Thompson in 1861 and 1871?
If Thomas was not the son of George Thompson the blacksmith (seems up in the air at the moment!), then what happened to that chap?
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Re Charlotte, late Parker formerly Snow
There is a birth registration in Westminster, Sep 1846
Parker, Thomas
mmn Snow
And a baptism of a Thomas Parker at St Margaret that year, parents Thomas and Charlotte (but I don't have the details)
Where are Thomas and Harriet Thompson in 1861 and 1871?
If Thomas was not the son of George Thompson the blacksmith (seems up in the air at the moment!), then what happened to that chap?
The only census record I’ve found that contains Thomas and Harriet with their children Alice, Edward, Arthur and Herbert is here
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tp1/
The next census has Harriet as a widow living with newphew William mother sole and children Herbert and Maud (Alice).
Check out this record I found on the Ancestry mobile app https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tp2/
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Hi
Thanks for the shares.
I think they may be in Islington workhouse in 1871
Thomas, 32, a Groom?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRN2-BZ6
Harriet
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRN2-BNR
Alice
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRNL-SW5
Any more?
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Check out this record I found on the Ancestry mobile app https://www.ancestry.com/sharing/33590884?token=7b22746f6b656e223a2243694f4b333975516857466c693433466d6c63704c6c793878307059717042515870716b7a3445466c77593d222c22746f6b656e5f76657273696f6e223a225632227d&country=GB&locale=en-GB&app_store=apple-GBR&moo=c2%3A0%7Cc3%3A0%7Cc6%3A0%7Cc7%3A0%7Cc8%3A0%7Cc9%3A0%7Cc10%3A0%7Cc11%3A0%7Cc12%3A0%7Ci%3A576%7Cv%3A2%7Cc%3A992981%7Ct%3A9527507
The next census has Harriet as a widow living with newphew William mother sole and children Herbert and Maud (Alice).
Check out this record I found on the Ancestry mobile app https://www.ancestry.com/sharing/33590954?token=7b22746f6b656e223a224e374832546d4e41325a3566325a73652b2b6c6451574579457230535133714e466246316c48446b6346303d222c22746f6b656e5f76657273696f6e223a225632227d&country=GB&locale=en-GB&app_store=apple-GBR&moo=c2%3A0%7Cc3%3A0%7Cc6%3A0%7Cc7%3A0%7Cc8%3A0%7Cc9%3A0%7Cc10%3A0%7Cc11%3A0%7Cc12%3A0%7Ci%3A576%7Cv%3A2%7Cc%3A992981%7Ct%3A9527507
Please use the RootsChat ShrinkLink-
https://www.rootschat.com/links/
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Hi
Thanks for the shares.
I think they may be in Islington workhouse in 1871
Thomas, 32, a Groom?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRN2-BZ6
Harriet
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRN2-BNR
Alice
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRNL-SW5
Any more?
Thank you for these. Thomas is described as an Ostler on my GG Grandfathers birth certificate Edward Thomas Thompson - actually registered as Thomas Edward Thompson.
Thomas and Harriet had the following children (there may have been more but the below is what I've managed to find).
Maria Elizabeth 1862-1962
Alice Victoria 1863-1950
William George 1866-1868
Edward Thomas 1867-1940
George Robert 1870-1871
Charles Henry 1872-?
Arthur Joseph 1875-?
Herbert David 1879-1956
Victoria Maud 1883-?
I have found workhouse records on Ancestry for mother Harriet and children Arthur, Herbert and Victoria Maud. Edward and Arthur joined the Border Regiment, Arthur enlisted when he was only 14. Thats how my Great Grandfather Edward ended up in Carlisle as his wife Isabella Fulton was born in Cummersdale, a small village on the outskirts of Carlisle.
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Please use the RootsChat ShrinkLink-
https://www.rootschat.com/links/
Will do thank you for this.
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Where are Thomas and Harriet Thompson in 1861 and 1871?
1861 census ?POSSIBLE? Cross St, Westminster St James, Middlesex
P65/F70/p45
Plus point - Thomas' occupation of Waiter and his age matches the occupation and age of 'minor' on the marriage
Unsure point - His wife is recorded as Mary rather than Harriet but is a ?possible? as her middle name was Mary and her age of 16 certainly means a match for her being a minor on the marriage record
Boo
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Where are Thomas and Harriet Thompson in 1861 and 1871?
1861 census ?POSSIBLE? Cross St, Westminster St James, Middlesex
P65/F70/p45
Plus point - Thomas' occupation of Waiter and his age matches the occupation and age of 'minor' on the marriage
Unsure point - His wife is recorded as Mary rather than Harriet but is a ?possible? as her middle name was Mary and her age of 16 certainly means a match for her being a minor on the marriage record
Boo
Yes I though this was also possible.
I've also found a Harriet 'Leveridge' on the 1861 census as a servant however states unmarried and she was married by this point.
Name Harriet Leveridge
Gender Female
Age 16
Relation Servant
Estimated Birth Year 1845
Where born Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Civil parish St Marylebone
County/Island Middlesex
Country England
Registration District Marylebone
Sub-registration district Christchurch
ED, institution, or vessel 15
Neighbors View others on page
Household schedule number 61
Piece 83
Folio 92
Page number 12
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I do have DNA connections to George Thompson on my Ancestry Thru Lines. I am new to DNA so I don't know how helpful this is or not.
(https://i.ibb.co/5X8pj90K/Screenshot-2025-03-11-at-09-01-02.png) (https://ibb.co/8n5vxBCY)
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I've also found a Harriet 'Leveridge' on the 1861 census as a servant however states unmarried and she was married by this point.
Name Harriet Leveridge
Gender Female
Age 16
Relation Servant
Estimated Birth Year 1845
Where born Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Civil parish St Marylebone
They were so young when they married, anything may be possible, even being enumerated in two different places!
Perhaps Thomas did tell a fib about his father being dead when he got married. George may not have known about it, Thomas fearing he might refuse to give permission.
birth registration in Westminster, Sep 1846
Parker, Thomas
mmn Snow
And a baptism of a Thomas Parker at St Margaret that year
The baptism was on 5 October 1846
Thomas, son of Thomas + Charlotte Parker
Abode 3 Old Pye St
Father a General Dealer
Sadly, young Thomas was buried at St Margaret, 5 Dec 1848
Abode 3 Old Pye St
Age 2
That address in Old Pye Street seems a big coincidence to me.
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I think I have found Thomas, Harriet and their children Alice, Edward and George entering the Islington workhouse in February 1871
Ancestry link here https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tpx/