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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: HappyGoLucky33 on Sunday 09 March 25 11:00 GMT (UK)
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A big mystery was partially solved yesterday when I came across a record from the Barnsley petty sessions in which my ancestor Elizabeth Kitchen successfully managed to get an order against the man who had fathered her illegitimate daughter Charlotte. The document is dated February 1868 and Charlotte was born in 1867 in Barnsley. It feels rather strange knowing the name of Charlotte’s father after roughly fifteen years of wondering!
His name was William Winter and the excitement has worn off slightly after realising that’s all I have to go on! There are a few Winter families in the area and the first place I looked was the 1871 census but I can’t see anyone who would fit the bill living in Barnsley at the time. Elizabeth was a very young mother, only 17, which means she was born in 1850. I have her in 1871 living with her new husband Charles Bonson.
But no sign of this mysterious William Winter!
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Is there nothing else on the document apart from his name? No occupation etc?
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Just a name unfortunately and the amount William was ordered to pay.
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Suspect DNA is your best way forward
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Yes you’re probably right CaroleW. There is a William Winter in Leeds Borough Gaol at the time of the 1871 census…
William Winter, Prisoner, 32 (born c.1839) born in Barnsley, Yorkshire
However, I have nothing at the moment linking him to the William in the petty session records (which isn’t much to go on in the first place) ???
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I thought a newspaper report on the petty sessions case might provide more details but unfortunately couldn’t find anything in those available on FindMyPast, sorry.
Pinetree
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Thank you for looking Pinetree. I don’t suppose anyone knows if any further information may have been recorded elsewhere? Such as within poor law records etc. I’m not too familiar with these types of records.
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If we assume he was a few years older than her & single - it narrows down 1871 entries to 3 possibles but none in Barnsley
William Winter
b Norwich 1847 in the Cavalry Barracks Leeds
b Cottingwith 1846 - living with mother & siblings
b 1848 Guisborough - living with mum
There is also another William who married Sept 1869 to Martha Wigglesworth
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If we assume he was a few years older than her & single - it narrows down 1871 entries to 3 possibles but none in Barnsley
William Winter
b Norwich 1847 in the Cavalry Barracks Leeds
b Cottingwith 1846 - living with mother & siblings
b 1848 Guisborough - living with mum
I will look into all of these, thank you.
I noticed that the letters W S S are written next to William’s entry. I wonder what that could mean?
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Just realised W S S most likely just means “weekly sum settled” or along those lines. And here’s me hoping it was a clue ::)
One thing I’ve noticed is that Elizabeth and Charlotte lived in the Ardsley area of Barnsley and there was a William Winter living in Ardsley in 1841, 1851 and had returned by 1881. Although I am keenly aware that his ages in these censuses mean he was born around 1829 so possibly a little old.
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The likely William you found in prison in 1871 age 32 was given 12 months for wounding with intent. Seems the only time he was in trouble, by online info?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/1590/records/468716
It looks like his actual birth is 1842 from baptism. Marriage online in 1860 to Eliza Hudson. Very young couple at marriage, Eliza likely a year younger. Found in census with family, in Barnsley, but not in 1871 as looks likely in jail.
Would keep on file if DNA testing as a number of children to couple.
There is every possibility your WW may have came from outside Barnsley, would be interesting to obtain the full record details of maintenance for Charlotte.
Just my thoughts
Cas
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A few years ago I accessed some court records from Barnsley archives and the lady who assisted me informed me that if the case related to someone from Barnsley itself then the case was recorded in the Barnsley borough court register. If the case related to someone from outside the boundaries of the Barnsley borough then the case was recorded in the Staincross division (although sitting in Barnsley)
Was William Winter’s case recorded as Barnsley or Staincross?
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Barnsley Archives may have bastardy orders or parish Overseers of the poor financial payment records that may have a bit more info on William Winter; - like how and where monies was collected from William also as member CaroleW says - maybe his occupation. ?
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Thank you all for your replies and thoughts. I have emailed Barnsley archive and have asked what records they have available on these payments.
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As an after thought ! and maybe obvious you will already have ? but have you acquired a birth certificate for the daughter Charlotte as William Winter maybe given as the illegitimate father with an occupation. ???
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There is no father on the birth certificate and Charlotte left the father’s name blank on her marriage certificate too. She was raised by her grandparents after her mother’s marriage. Makes me wonder if she even knew who her father was.
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The baptism of Charlotte looks like it took place at Ardsley.
12th April 1868, Charlotte Kitchen, mother was Elizabeth, spinster of Hoyle Mill
Interestingly, several members of the Winter family were working at the Oaks Colliery near Hoyle Mill when the explosion happened in December 1866. Among the victims were Duncombe Winter, Henry Winter, Joseph Winter, Thomas Winter, John Winter and 17-year old William Winter. Perhaps there is a link.