RootsChat.Com

Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Roscommon => Topic started by: cullenfamily on Sunday 09 March 25 06:34 GMT (UK)

Title: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: cullenfamily on Sunday 09 March 25 06:34 GMT (UK)
I am hoping to find out more about my grand-aunt, Frances (Fannjy) Dolan. She was born, or baptised on 1/3/1885 at Castlerea, County Roscommon Ireland to my great-grandparents Michael Dolan and Mary Anne Browne. She was listed in the 1901 Census of Ireland as 16 years old and was known by all as "Fanny" but was not listed in the 1911 Census 10 years later. It was said she left home and was believed to be living in Belfast, Northern Ireland but there is no further information on her available apart from the fact that she left home between 1901 and 1911. I would be very grateful if anyone may have her in their family tree in later years or have any further information as to her whereabouts, possible marriage and death. Thank you.
Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 09 March 25 07:16 GMT (UK)

Here's her birth record, but she was born in 1885.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1885/02632/1970748.pdf

Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: cullenfamily on Sunday 09 March 25 07:21 GMT (UK)
My apologies, I was aware of that and I have corrected my typo just now.
Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 09 March 25 12:03 GMT (UK)
For reference- daughter Frances Dolan, age 16:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Roscommon/Castlereagh/Arm/1663995/ (10 children in household)

Parents & 7 children in 1911 census:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Roscommon/Castlereagh/Arm/763029/ (mother says 11 children/10 living= son Thomas is youngest in both census records)
Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: cullenfamily on Sunday 09 March 25 12:53 GMT (UK)
Correct!
Some time between 1901 and 1911 she left home and is supposed to have settled in Belfast.
This is my quest to find her during that period.
Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 09 March 25 13:53 GMT (UK)
Can't see any Frances or Fanny born Roscommon in 1911 in Co. Antrim or Co. Down around the correct age.

I did find a death in 1903 for a Fanny Dolan (age 18) but in Leixlip- sister Margaret is informant-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05654/4591831.pdf
Possibly this Fanny Dolan-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Leixlip/North_Salt__Barony_/1437742/

Can't see a marriage in Ireland or death, any sign of Fanny/Frances in Belfast, etc.
Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: cullenfamily on Sunday 09 March 25 14:47 GMT (UK)
Thanks aghadowey. The date fits perfectly and thanks for searching. it does throw up a few considerations though. Frances did not have a sister called Margaret - but she did have a sister called Martha (who was called Mattie). So is Martha a variation of Margaret?
Frances birth cert clearly registers her as "Fanny" and if we dispose of the formal name, Frances, then her death cert fits well and carries the name she was called at birth (Fanny). It would be interesting to see if her actual Baptismal Cert had Fanny also!
It was an assumption among the family members at the time that she let home for Belfast and was never heard of again after that. As it was something that was passed down from one member of the family to another, then there is always the possibility that it was incorrect and not Belfast she went to at all, but perhaps Kildare or Dublin.
So many young Irish girls fell pregnant and had to go elsewhere to have their baby as the Catholic faith was very strong in Ireland in bygone days and several institutions took these young girls in, where they had their child, which was later adopted and the mothers often were prisoners after this and not able to leave the religious institutions. It was regarded as a shame on the family if the Parish Priest heard of such a case and would think nothing of announcing this to the entire parish and to avoid such, these young girls just disappeared at the time.
Perhaps Fanny met with the same fate. I wonder if there was such an institution in Leixlip, and perhaps she died during childbirth. The death cert (if hers) does not elaborate more than just Leixlip as the place of death.
Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 09 March 25 14:56 GMT (UK)
I did find a death in 1903 for a Fanny Dolan (age 18) but in Leixlip- sister Margaret is informant-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05654/4591831.pdf
Possibly this Fanny Dolan-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Leixlip/North_Salt__Barony_/1437742/
This isn't the right Fanny Dolan but I posted if so that she could be ruled out. Here's that family in 1911-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kildare/Leixlip/Leixlip_Town/540420/
Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: shanreagh on Saturday 19 April 25 05:41 BST (UK)
On the 1911 census there was a provision for the wife/mother to indicate how many children she had given birth to and how many were alive on Census night.  Mary, the mother, has answered 11 children born and 10 still alive.

OP have you tracked down the births/deaths of the children? Do you know who  the death would be please?

Bewtween 1901 and 1911 these female children are 'missing' from the census records for the parents. Have you found Emma and Mary Jane?

1901
Dolan   Emma   18   Female   Daughter   Roman Catholic
Dolan   Frances   16   Female   Daughter   Roman Catholic
Dolan   Mary Jane   14   Female   Daughter   Roman Catholic

1911
Dolan   Emma   28   Female   Daughter   Roman Catholic
Dolan   Frances   26   Female   Daughter   Roman Catholic
Dolan   Mary Jane   24   Female   Daughter   Roman Catholic
Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: cullenfamily on Saturday 19 April 25 05:51 BST (UK)
Thank you shanreagh
The child that died was NOT Frances.
Frances (Fanny) Dolan left home (probably shamed and/or with child) and never returned. It is thought she went to Northern Ireland, possibly Belfast.
Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: shanreagh on Saturday 19 April 25 05:54 BST (UK)
Thank you shanreagh
The child that died was NOT Frances.
Frances (Fanny) Dolan left home (probably shamed and/or with child) and never returned. It is thought she went to Northern Ireland, possibly Belfast.

Please advise who the child was. have you a link to the death please? . 

Stories passed down can be powerful and also can be incorrect.

In my famaily for instance there were passed down stories about the uncles of my Irish grandmother
'who went to to the US and were never heard of again' 
This was accepted as gospel unitl my mother and i were looking at an album passed down to my g'ma from her mother ie the sister of the missing uncles and there were many pictures of these two uncles in the US and later I found that one had actually returned to Ireland.  My grandma lost her mother at age 10 and I can imagine a harried father with 5 motherless children under 10, saying in answer as to why these uncles are not in contact or here now, that 'they went to the US and were never heard of again'

The point being that stories may be just that, sometimes true and sometimes not. Sometimes true in part and not true in others.

If you are keen for help it is a given that we must  suspend  our belief in what we have been told, no matter how well meaning or how long hel in our family, until we have all had a go at exploring all angles and going down any by-ways.   ;D
Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: cullenfamily on Saturday 19 April 25 05:58 BST (UK)
I do not know the name of the child that died. Most likely at birth and was not christened.
Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: shanreagh on Saturday 19 April 25 06:11 BST (UK)
I do not know the name of the child that died. Most likely at birth and was not christened.

That is not especially helpful. 

Is it family lore that an unregistered child was born and died shortly after birth?  Have you never searched?
Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: cullenfamily on Saturday 19 April 25 06:28 BST (UK)
shanreagh
My quest for information was for Frances (Fanny) Dolan, living, and listed in the 1901 Census of Ireland, aged 16, and not listed thereafter.
I have never searched for the child that died. If you wish to do so, then all of the information about the parents is listed in the Census returns.
Title: Re: FRANCES (FANNY) DOLAN (born 1885 Roscommon)
Post by: shanreagh on Saturday 19 April 25 08:20 BST (UK)
We all understand that your search is for Fanny(frances) .

Usually a necesary part of finding one person is doing what I call 'going round the traps' to look at family, parents, location etc. 

Amassing info on parents and siblings can sometimes lead to finding a 'missing ' person. ie we find a sister staying with another sister but this other sister has a different name or mispelt name. etc etc. Then there is the complication brought about by names eg frances, Fanny could be Fran, Franny etc

That is why I was hoping you may have done research on the other sisters..... in case Frances/Fanny was with either of them. 

Have you searched for an infant Dolan, ie her child?