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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: cornishwalker on Sunday 02 March 25 10:56 GMT (UK)
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HI
I am trying to trace the death of a Frank Edwards Born 1863 St Pancras, London.
The last record I can find is the 1891 census at 4 Raydon St, St Pancras, London
I know that Rose listed as his wife is living with Robert Luck in the 1901 census and there is not record of a marriage between rose and frank
I wonder if he emigrated?
Any help would be useful, Thanks in advance
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1891 shows birthplace as Marylebone
Did he & Rose ever marry? Son Levi Prince was registered as Harman in 1887 & I can't see a Harman/Edwards marriage 1887-1891
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Where is he in 1871 and 1881, who are his parents
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I cannot find a marriage for Rose and Frank but Prince was an Edwards in the census
Will come back with locations in a bit
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1871
Age 7-8
Census
1871
Hawthornden, Lewisham, London
1881
Age 17-18
Census
1881
Nawthorn Den, Park Rd, Lewisham, London
Frances Edwards
His father
1834 - Deceased
Keziah Lewis
His mother
1828 - 1877
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I think your Frank married in Lewisham in 1889
Frank Edwards
Age 25
Marriage Date 5 Jun 1889
Marriage Place St. Mark'S, Lewisham, Kent, England
Father Francis Edwards
Spouse Emily Charlotte Catterns
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Not sure about this one , needs checking because of loaction
EDWARDS, EDWARD FRANK mmn CATTERNS
GRO Reference: 1889 Dec Quarter in WILTON Volume 05A Page 205
Probably the son of Charles Edwards and Charlotte Catterns
.........
EDWARDS, HAROLD FRANCIS mmn CATTERNS
GRO Reference: 1890 Sept Quarter in LEWISHAM Volume 01D Page 1112
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There is a Frank Edwards with wife Emily , Frank bn Pancras in Lewisham in 1891
RG12
Piece 519
Folio 63
Page 36
ADDED
His occupation was Architect and Surveyor, the same as his fathers was
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In 1901 Emily and Harold are in Lambeth - Emily states she is married
24, Trent Road, Lambeth
In 1911 she is in Hampstead and states she is a widow
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I cannot find a marriage for Rose and Frank but Prince was an Edwards in the census
Births
LEVI PRINCE VICTOR HARMAN No mothers maiden name shown so he was illegitimate
GRO Reference: 1887 S Quarter in EDMONTON Volume 03A Page 403
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In 1901 Frank is in Scotland at Kilmuir (Millburn House) Duirinish. Invernesshire
Age 37 bn London occ Architect and Surveyor - Boarding with Roderick Steele and his wife Margaret
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Son Harolds marriage which has his father Frank's occupation as Architect - Frank is noted as Deceased
Harold Francis Edwards
Age 30
Marriage 22 Oct 1921
Marriage Place St Anne's Church, Kew, Surrey
Father Frank Edwards
Spouse Anna Vibekke Nielsen Ladefoged
Emily C Edwards was a witness
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Thank you both, The Frank Emily marriage is also part of the story, It looks like he married her and had Harold and then lived with Rose. Rose was a servant / seamstress and I believe she worked in his family home. Prince Levi is my Great Grandfather and Frank and Rose are my G Great Grandparents.
Thank you for finding frank in 1901 I can now look for more in Scotland. I was totally confused with all the details but it is starting to come together.
Thanks again
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hi
where can I find the Scottish 1901 census entry?
Thanks again
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It's ok, just found it :-)
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How have you confirmed that the Frank living with Rose is the same as the Frank living with Emily both in 1891. One born Marylebone, the other bn St Pancras, I know they are close to each other.
One is a Wood Stainer age 29 bn Marylebone, the other an Architect age 27 born St Pancras
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Do you have Rose in 1881
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Here is Frank and Rose in the 1891 census
Name Frank Edwards
Gender Male
Birth Circa 1862
Marylebone, London
Residence 1891
4 Raydon St, St Pancras, London, England
Age 29
Marital status Married
Occupation Wood Stainer
Employed Yes
Inhabited 1
Number of rooms 3
Wife Rose Edwards
Son Plinee Edwards
Census
Parish St Pancras Series RG12
Municipal ward 1 Piece 138
Ecclesiastical district St Ann Enumerated by John Jones Abbott
Parlamentary borough Nth St Pancras Enum. District 41
Registration district St Pancras, Kentish Town Page 135
County London Family 37
Country England Line 24
Date 1891 Image 6
I will find the Emily entry and post it
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missed her father and brother who were living with them 1891
# Name Relation to head Marital status Age
24. Frank Edwards Head M 29
25. Rose Edwards Wife M 28
26. Plinee Edwards Son 3
27. William Harman Father in Law W 71
28. William Harman Brother in Law S 32
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Rose in the 1871 but I dont seem to have an 1881 for her
Rose Harman
Gender: Female
Birth: Circa 1863
Surrey, England
Residence: 1871
Crownpits, Crownpik, Godalming, Surrey (Ex.Metro), England
Age: 8
Father: William Harman
Mother: Elizabeth Harman
Siblings: Levi Harman
Prince A Harman
Census
Ecclesiastical district Busbridge Series RG10 Page 30
Parish Godalming Piece 0815 Family 292
County Surrey (Ex.Metro) Registrar's district Godalming Line 17
Country England Superintendent registrar's district Guildford Image 54
Date 1871 Enum. District 5
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I think you are looking at 2 completely different Frank Edwards. You say that Rose & Frank are your Gt grandparents but Levi was illegitimate & unless you have DNA evidence there is no proof that Frank was his father.
Do you have a copy of Levi's 1887 birth cert?
Their occupations are totally different & they are both on the 1891 census at different addresses & different birthplaces
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I think she is possibly in Kingston on Thames in 1881 as Rose Harmond age 19 born Godalming. Her occupation is Nurse (Domestic). She is living with Duncan and Emily Watts who have young children
RG11
Piece 836
Folio 15
Page 25
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The emily frank wedding could be a seperate marrage. I have had DNA results from other people that are connected to the frank architect family that match.
I will have to go through my paper backup for the birth cert
but I still dont have frank's date of death
I have these dates on-line
1863
Birth
Aug 21 1863
St Pancras, London
1863
Age <1
Christening
Sep 27 1863
St Peter, St Pancras, London
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Rosie99 that seems about right
she was very nomadic
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Frank - wood stainer - may be no relation to you? Unless his name is shown on the 1887 birth cert as father there were 3yrs between Levi's birth in 1887 & the 1891 census. Frank & Rose may only have met sometime in that 3yrs.
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that could be, its been a conundrum for years
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You can download a digital copy of Levi's birth cert for £3 but I doubt Frank's name will be on it
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found Levi paper copy and no father, but when he went to school he was listed as edwards with Frank as the father
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Yes - I saw that school record - 1893
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What surname did he use as an adult
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The story goes that he was in boarding school and when Rose and Robert Luck lived together Robert Luck got him out of school. That was what Prince told my mother (his grand daughter)
He used Prince Levi Victor Luck in the army and for life
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found Levi paper copy and no father, but when he went to school he was listed as edwards with Frank as the father
It does say Parent or Guardian at the top of the column
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sorry missed a bit it was prince levi victor harmon luck in some places
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Prince luck married Winifred Clara Tribe,
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He does not seem to know what to call himself does he.
Do you have a DNA link to one of Franks siblings.
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have a DNA link for a descendant of frank's siblings, god knows where my data for it is, it was a while since I got the confirmation.
That is what allowed me to say Frank was the father
But I've never tracked down Frank's death because the family knowledge was mainly the Luck family and no one knew of the Edwards link
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Are you not able to access your DNA results online :-\
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yes i am but the link was to a cousin as both my mother and I are only children and my Maternal Grandmother was the only one to have children. Prince was her father and the connection to Frank's sibling's came via email after a cousin match but I cant find the cousin match on line.
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they did not have their tree on line it was all via email correspondence
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I am just learning about dna but thought it was only possible to get a dna match by both parties having their results online
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Birth in June qtr 1891
EDWARDS, —
Mother's Maiden Surname: HARMAN
GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 175
Indexed as Unknown Edwards in original GRO index
Indexed as both male and female Edwards in new GRO index (presuming it's not twins)
Death June 1891 Pancras 1b 152
Edwards, Unknown
Age 0
Indexed as male and female on new index
Strangely there is also a female Unknown on 1b 152 in original index.
Also :-\
EDWARDS, ARTHUR FRANK GOLDSMITH
Mother's Maiden Surname: HARMAN
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 434
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Hi
I've found both of these births and currently sent away for the certificate for the harman one. Funds allowing I will get the death cert soon
Re DNA the other persons DNA was on line but they did not have all of the tree on line as they did not want to publish it. Through E:mails we pieces it together but I'm unsure where it is saved
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Are you aware that you can get digital copies for births and deaths for those dates from GRO for £3
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I prefer a paper copy but I might get digital I missed it as I clicked pay...lol
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Also :-\
EDWARDS, ARTHUR FRANK GOLDSMITH
Mother's Maiden Surname: HARMAN
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 434
I believe I mentioned this one on a earlier post you have for this family
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there was a rumor that rose never got over "frankie"'s death and we do wonder if it was that one, also roamers that it was not Frank Edwards child
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I know that Rose listed as his wife is living with Robert Luck in the 1901 census
1911 census (Wimbledon) says Robert Henry and Rose Luck married 13 years.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW8Y-HRD
Possible marriage
Dec 1897 Kensington 1a 397
Edwardes, Rose Florence
Luck, Robert Henry
The other two names on 1a 397, Ernest Joseph Rust and Ellen Langston pair off (census, birth registrations of children, mother Langston)
Have you got this marriage certificate?
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I've found both of these births and currently sent away for the certificate for the harman one.
Do let us know how you are getting on when it arrives.
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Hi sorry for the delay, Rose Edwards and Robert Luck I have their marriage, I'll have to look it out.
Prince Levi (edwards) Luck is my Great Grandfather, His daughter Anne Florence Luck is my grandmother.
I now have the first birth cert and there is no name or sex of the child but the parents are listed as Rose Edwards (nee Harman) and Frank Edwards. I will get the other cert soon.
I have a theory, Rose was a Seamstress and maid, Around the time Prince was born Frank Edward's father had the Architects business they had near Spittlefield market, London dissolved.
There has always been rumours of a black cab or black coach coming to Rose with money, which I now believe was from Frank Edwards before they lived together.
Prince Edwards told my grandmother that he was put in Barnardo's, I ow believe that was the school at Westminster.
There are more stories about Prince Levi Victor Luck, one I am working on was that some MP's called him a bastard while he was in Malta, Where he promptly pushed them into the Valetta harbour. We know he was there. Also there is some conflict with he war records as in the second world war he says he had never been in the forces.
So you all know a bit more about Prince Levi I've attached a picture of him.
Thanks for all your help, every turn seems to make more mystery.
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Hi there
Thanks for the info, and for the splendid photo of Prince, it's good to see him. Taken in Malta!
Is the occupation given for Frank on the cert the same as in the census?
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HI
Frank was a carpenter on the birth cert, I realise I went off track explaining my theory.
The different occupations were due to the architects being dissolved, He had to find work to support his family and I believe he was disowned by his father due to getting Rose, a mere servant, pregnant with Prince. By the way it is said Rose had three brothers Prince, Levi and Victor and that's where Prince got his names
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Thank you.
It's OK, we keep an open mind about things on here! Lets hope your DNA match bears some fruit.
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My main problem is Frank Edwards goes missing somewhen after 1891 as Rose is with Robert Henry Luck in the 1901
So I'm trying to find a death so I can find where he ends up, did he die as on the marriage of Rose and Robert she is listed as a widow, but I cannot find a marriage of Rose and Frank. A total mystery
Thanks for your help