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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: JakeMcGhee on Saturday 01 March 25 21:38 GMT (UK)
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Hello Everyone,
I am looking to find the birthplace of my Great x3 Grandmother Johanna Specht, Johanna was born in Germany (as stated in Scottish Census Records, except 1921 where she is nowhere to be found from my attempts) I have her 1st marriage certificate to William Moyer in Hull in 1881, and her 2nd marriage certificate to my Great x3 Grandfather William Reid, as well as her death certificate in 1925, she was born in Germany around the early to mid-1850s, Her Father is listed as Friedrich Specht on her marriage certificate to William Moyer, while on her death certificate he is listed as John Specht, with her mother being listed as Rosa (maiden name not recorded)
Does anyone know any useful resources to research German ancestors? Johanna and William Moyer had a daughter born around 1873 named Rosalina (Lena) in Germany, and a son named William in The United States.
Kind regards,
Jake
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Previous topic here-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=887689.msg7609005#msg7609005
Her Father is listed as Friedrich Specht on her marriage certificate to William Moyer, while on her death certificate he is listed as John Specht
Many Germans had more than one Christian name so both could be correct.
Have you found birthplace for daughter Rosalina in Germany? although if Johanna and 1st husband married in England they might have come from different parts of Germany.
I've been able to trace my German ancestry back quite far but have locations to start with and lots of help from relatives still there.
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Hello :)
Thank you very much for the reply, I have not been able to track down the birthplace of Rosalina so far, I managed to find her on the 1921 census, but her birthplace was listed simply as "Germany". I have not encountered German ancestry before, so have no real knowledge on the best places to navigate outside of Ancestry and FindMyPast, although something may have slipped through the cracks somewhere on those sites.
Kind regards,
Jake
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You say you have 2 marriage certificates for Johanna.
What is the information on BOTH please?
Post Complete and full details, please. Omit nothing.
Where and when was the son William Moyer born in USA?
There is a male child born at sea, onboard “Revello”, on 21 Jan 1884, to William Moyer and Annie Spect. Is this him, or a different son?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT8Q-1HY?lang=en
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In the 1881 census for Hull, there is Anna Specht, age 26, from Stromberg Germany, lodging with the Stephan family from Wurtemberg.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27B-WKBL?lang=en
Christoph Stephan was a pork butcher and victualler.
Have you looked to see the connection between your Annie and Cristoph Stephan, or either of his 2 wives.
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You say you have 2 marriage certificates for Johanna.
What is the information on BOTH please?
Post Complete and full details, please. Omit nothing.
Where and when was the son William Moyer born in USA?
There is a male child born at sea, onboard “Revello”, on 21 Jan 1884, to William Moyer and Annie Spect. Is this him, or a different son?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT8Q-1HY?lang=en
Hello Neale1961,
Thank you very much for the reply, here is the information I have for both marriage records
William Moyer & Johanna Specht.
26th May 1881 German Lutheran Church, District of Hull.
William Moyer aged 35, Johanna Specht aged 27
Bachelor & Spinister
William Moyers' profession listed as "Ships Cook"
residence for both listed as "Myton Gate, Hull"
Williams Father was listed as Philip Moyer & Johannas as Friedrich Specht, both of whom were farmers.
Witnesses seem to be G. Stephan & W. Schroeder
William Reid & Johanna Specht/Moyer (Named solely as Johanna Moyer on this record)
24th July 1885 Church of Scotland, Greenock
William Reid aged 42, Johanna Moyer/Specht aged 31
William Reid listed as Widower, and Johanna Moyer/Specht as Widow.
Can not make out usual residence.
Williams' parents listed as William Reid & Margaret Cochrane, Johannas' parents listed as John Speck and Rosa Speck (Maiden name not given)
Both Williams parents listed as deceased, and Johannas' father listed as deceased, both fathers were listed as labourers.
Witnesses seem to be A. Ross & Elizabeth Lyle.
If anything else is needed please let me know :)
Kind regards,
Jake
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In the 1881 census for Hull, there is Anna Specht, age 26, from Stromberg Germany, lodging with the Stephan family from Wurtemberg.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27B-WKBL?lang=en
Christoph Stephan was a pork butcher and victualler.
Have you looked to see the connection between your Annie and Cristoph Stephan, or either of his 2 wives.
Hello Neale :)
Now that I saw this message I see C. Stephan on the marriage certificate to William Moyer & Johanna Specht! instead of G. Stephan. I would say that is a very positive step in the right direction, there is I am sure something that links them together.
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The 1881 census gives a place of birth for Johanna. Since she is living in the house of C Stephan who is also witness to her marriage, it would be worth looking into the Stephan family. I ran out of time today, but I did notice that Christoph had 2 marriages.
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The surname Specht is so very unusual in Scotland, so my curiosity was aroused by the Rosina Magdalin SPECHT born in 1892 Greenock East.
What do you know about this person?
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Male German nationals were interred in WW1, but not sure about women. Perhaps not seen as a threat? Also would her marriage change her nationality automatically?
I had great success with a male German national due to Red Cross records, enabling me to discover the exact place of birth.
ADD: Also daughter (Rosa)lina - where was she in WW1; would she have been interred?
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The surname Specht is so very unusual in Scotland, so my curiosity was aroused by the Rosina Magdalin SPECHT born in 1892 Greenock East.
What do you know about this person?
I am certain that this Rosina is the Granddaughter of Johanna Specht, as Johannas' Daughter, who is also named Rosina, is listed as the Mother (Rosina Magdelin Specht is the full name of Mother listed) Rosina (Born. 1892) is listed as being illegitimate, and as such, no Father is listed, what I find odd, is that her Mother Rosina (Born around 1873) goes by the surname Specht, instead of Moyer, so perhaps she was also an illegitimate child of Johanna? and William Moyer was not the Father? as she would have been born around 8 years before Johanna married William Moyer.
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The surname Specht is so very unusual in Scotland, so my curiosity was aroused by the Rosina Magdalin SPECHT born in 1892 Greenock East.
What do you know about this person?
I am certain that this Rosina is the Granddaughter of Johanna Specht, as Johannas' Daughter, who is also named Rosina, is listed as the Mother (Rosina Magdelin Specht is the full name of Mother listed) Rosina (Born. 1892) is listed as being illegitimate, and as such, no Father is listed, what I find odd, is that her Mother Rosina (Born around 1873) goes by the surname Specht, instead of Moyer, so perhaps she was also an illegitimate child of Johanna? and William Moyer was not the Father? as she would have been born around 8 years before Johanna married William Moyer.
OK, that’s very interesting. I think you are probably right, she was the illegitimate daughter of Johanna. i wonder where she was in 1881 when Johanna was in Hull.
Have a look at this possible birth and baptism. Lots would fit with your specht family.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VHQF-B9C?lang=en
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The town hall of a small place like this (Forchtenberg) quoted in the ref from Neale1961 could help?
I was given a lot of information about my German relative. He was illegitimate so their records gave the name of mother and her father. The record was also kept updated with a later marriage in Germany.
I enquired first with simple sentences using Google translate German. The person at the town hall realised the Gothic script would add to the difficulty so kindly translated it all.
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The town hall of a small place like this (Forchtenberg) quoted in the ref from Neale1961 could help?
I was given a lot of information about my German relative. He was illegitimate so their records gave the name of mother and her father. The record was also kept updated with a later marriage in Germany.
I enquired first with simple sentences using Google translate German. The person at the town hall realised the Gothic script would add to the difficulty so kindly translated it all.
Hello Val :)
Thank you very much for letting me know this! this certainly seems like something that could be very useful, how did you get into contact with the town hall in Germany that related to you? if you do not mind my asking
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I think I just looked up the town, then the town hall (RatHaus?) and emailed the contact there using Google translate to do it in German. Hopefully it was proper German. Anyway, did the trick.
Add: just googled the town and got this https://www.forchtenberg.de/startseite Don't know how many towns have the same name though...
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I think I just looked up the town, then the town hall (RatHaus?) and emailed the contact there using Google translate to do it in German. Hopefully it was proper German. Anyway, did the trick.
Add: just googled the town and got this https://www.forchtenberg.de/startseite Don't know how many towns have the same name though...
Here's the map and if you zoom out it will show more of the area-
https://www.forchtenberg.de/unsere-stadt/lage-anfahrt/ortsplan
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Reposting this from reply #3, as it seems to have been missed.
Where and when was the son William Moyer born in USA?
There is a male child born at sea, onboard “Revello”, on 21 Jan 1884, to William Moyer and Annie Spect.
Is this him, or a different son?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT8Q-1HY?lang=en
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Reposting this from reply #3, as it seems to have been missed.
Where and when was the son William Moyer born in USA?
There is a male child born at sea, onboard “Revello”, on 21 Jan 1884, to William Moyer and Annie Spect.
Is this him, or a different son?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT8Q-1HY?lang=en
Hello Neale,
This part is a tad confusing, as a 2 month old William Moyer is reported to have passed away on the Revello in March 1884, along with a 38 year William Moyer in June, also on the Revello, the elder William is listed as being from Pennsylvania, and occupation being "Cook & Steward" which would match up with the marriage record where he was described as being a "Ships Cook", So I believe you would agree that the William Moyer & Annie Specht Moyer, that were on the Revello are most likely the William & Johanna I have been researching. Now all I can think of is maybe after 2 month old William passed away, Johanna fell pregnant again, before William Sr passed away, as I have the marriage record located in Greenock 1905, for a "William Moyers Reid " aged 22, whos' parents are listed as William Moyers & Johanna Reid, previously Moyers & Specht. I also have William on the 1901 census living with William Reid, Johanna, and his half-siblings James, Johanna and Francis, as well as a few Borders, with his place of birth being listed as "America"
Kind regards,
Jake
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I think I just looked up the town, then the town hall (RatHaus?) and emailed the contact there using Google translate to do it in German. Hopefully it was proper German. Anyway, did the trick.
Add: just googled the town and got this https://www.forchtenberg.de/startseite Don't know how many towns have the same name though...
Thank you very much Val, I appreciate this greatly!
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I think I just looked up the town, then the town hall (RatHaus?) and emailed the contact there using Google translate to do it in German. Hopefully it was proper German. Anyway, did the trick.
Add: just googled the town and got this https://www.forchtenberg.de/startseite Don't know how many towns have the same name though...
Here's the map and if you zoom out it will show more of the area-
https://www.forchtenberg.de/unsere-stadt/lage-anfahrt/ortsplan
Thank you very much! I will have a look and try and narrow it down :)
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This part is a tad confusing, as a 2 month old William Moyer is reported to have passed away on the Revello in March 1884, along with a 38 year William Moyer in June, also on the Revello, the elder William is listed as being from Pennsylvania, and occupation being "Cook & Steward" which would match up with the marriage record where he was described as being a "Ships Cook", So I believe you would agree that the William Moyer & Annie Specht Moyer, that were on the Revello are most likely the William & Johanna I have been researching.
I have had a look at the original images of the register of births / deaths at sea.
The 2 month old baby who died at sea 30 March (born January 1884) was not named William. On the register BT158 the name William has been crossed through.
On register BT 159 he is recorded as 2 month Moyer passenger (no forename)
I think the dead baby was probably never named, and the child named William (who went on to marry in Scotland) was born earlier in the marriage - 1882/1883.
The "Revello" seems to have travelled between England and Annapolis. William Moyer Senior is recorded as dying in June 1884 was from Pennsylvania. So we assume that the son William was born maybe in the Annapolis area.
Johanna was obviously travelling across the seas with her husband. He was a cook and a steward, not the ship's captain, so I thought that was quite interesting.