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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: tablecloth on Saturday 01 March 25 14:47 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I have what I believe is a quite significant dna match with someone. It is 1.9 % dna, 134,8 cM, 8 segments and the largest segment is 34,7 cM. I think we are connected through a great grandmother, however it is not possible that this is my great grandmother also. What could be possible is that this great grandmother´s father is my great great great grandfather. However, I cannot be certain of that. What I would like to know is whether this dna match is significant enough to show any kind of certainty in terms of understanding the relationship I have with my dna match.
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At those results there are a lot of relationship possibilities.
Feed it into DNA Painter’s shared DNA match tool to see them.
Do you have an Ancestry account & is that who you tested with?b
If so then you can look at the Shared Matches and if you sign up to Pro Tools you can see what cM the match also shares with the matches that you share together, this in turn can help to build a tree around the match.
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At those results there are a lot of relationship possibilities.
Feed it into DNA Painter’s shared DNA match tool to see them.
https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4
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Thanks for getting back to me.
The dna match has come from a myheritage account. My heritage states that the dna match is likely m 3rd cousin. The person has a tree and I can clearly see her great grandmother, however it is not my great grandmother. The father however is possibly my great, great, great grandfather, however there is not enough data out there for me to show that with any certainty.
I tried the painter tool and not quite sure what it really shows me. i suppose my question now is can I assume with any dna certainty that it is my great great great grandfather in this persons tree ?
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Hi tablecloth,
As Biggles50 mentioned, there are a lot of possible relationships for a match of that size, so dont take what MyHeritage says as gospel. If you don't want to use the DNAPainter tool, on your MyHeritage matches you can click on the relationship description to view other possible relationships.
Now looking at DNAPainter, its suggesting these 4 relationships with the highest probablity : Half 2C 2C1R Half 1C2R 1C3R. Which suggest connection from either Grandparents or Great Grandparents, however the other probably relationships are high enough that Great (x2) grandparents are also probably as well. So therefore you really can't say with any certainty based on this one result alone which generation the match is, without either further DNA matches or a good paper trail to back it up.
One probably silly statement, you suggest you are sure its not your great grandmother as they don't match. But don't forget, you have 8 great grandparents, and from a purely DNA point of view it could be any of them unless you have other evidence to narrow it down to one specific line.
Richard
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I know who my great great grandparents were, all eight of them. That is how I can be certain my matches great grandparent is not mine. It might be possible that her great grandparent is a sibling of my great great grandmother, however try as I might I just cannot verify that with any records. The name even fits for a great great great grandfather of mine. Again though I lack the paper trail and so I am reluctant to assume it is true without some degree of certainty.
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Whilst My Heritage has some good features I would suggest that you also take an Ancestry DNA test and sign up with them, as this will give you access to a vastly larger DNA database. If you have First Cousins who are amenable to helping then if they also took a DNA test then that would open up more possibilities. Additionally any Second Cousins from the suspect line that you can have take a DNA test then that will also expand the research.
As all your eight Great Grandparents are known and no doubt you also have the citations and records to go with them with the result being that your Family Tree is your Genealogical Tree.
It is not necessarily your Biological Family Tree, for only when you have DNA matches that verify each of your family branches that you can be certain that your family tree is your Biological Family Tree.
If you read the whole of this thread it may help https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=863488.0
There is also a series on BBC Sounds that I keep suggesting people listen to, it is called The Gift, each of the two series has six episodes and they are very much worth listening too.
If you share DNA with someone then they are family with them and with families being families expect the unexpected in research. Just because you have documentation and citations does not prove that the relationship is Biological only when substantiated with DNA should anyone be certain of their lineage.
If you watch the DNA series on TV then you will have seen the surprises that DNA can reveal, secrets kept locked within the family that remained a secret until a DNA test revealed the truth.
I have not been on any of the TV programmes but I am one of those who found and solved the secrets. Over 15 years of Family History research and a whole close branch of my Genealogical Family Tree does not contain my Biological Family.
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Is the surname of this match's great-grandmother the same as that of your great-grandmother?
The DNAPainter tool gives about 20 possible relationships. It could be any of them. You can get a bit more idea when considering feasible generational levels, i.e. if it looks like a removed relationship. And then more idea if you have more close matches (as suggested with testing other relatives), you could whittle that down to a few likely relationships.
It's not possible to really say much with a single cM relationship and a rough outline of two trees. With details of both trees, someone might be able to find a link.
The way to determine relationships is to find common DNA matches from two sides of a marriage. Say the great-grandmother is Ellen Snell, b. 1900, with parents William Snell and Frances Jones. You would expect to find DNA matches that are independently relates to William Snell and Frances Jones. And then repeat that for each generation.
So with the match who might be a sister of your great-grandmother, you'd be looking to see if you can find other DNA matches with shared ancestry; and on top of that they should share DNA. If it's Anglo ancestry you should probably be able to find a minimum of 10 clusters of matches that correlate with the ancestry of your match. That narrows down the possible relationships to one who shares all the ancestry of a match's ancestor.
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Hi,
Thanks for your thoughts.
Yes, the surname of my matches great grandmother and my great great grandmother are the same. The birth years are approximately 1859 and 1853 and so siblings are a possibility in that regard, along with the name of both fathers, which is exactly the same. One issue however, is that my great great grandmother married in 1878 and on her marriage certificate states her father´s name and profession. I have assumed this to mean that her father was alive at the time. However, now I wonder as her ´possible´ sibling left for New Zealand in 1877 following the deaths of her parents.
I originally tested my dna with ancestry uk from which a few distant cousins were revealed that all connect with my new match from heritage. I have been in contact with several and can see it is a relevant match, but I just can´t figure out exactly how. Although possible of course, I don´t think there are any hidden aspects as previously suggested. The problem basically is I just cannot find the documentation to connect it all together and so am trying to rely on this dna match to somehow prove something as conclusively as possible.
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the surname of my matches great grandmother and my great great grandmother are the same.
Do you mean that the mother of your and the match's great-grandmother is the same, but the father is different?
If no paper trial can be found that's the route to take. It will involve going through all the shared matches that appear to be on this line. If there tree is not complete, open up dead-ends and search for them in public trees. There is a [search] button at the top-right of each profile. The line is often continued, or if not, you might be able to find records. It doesn't take a huge amount of time to go through each one.
It's important to make sure that the matches are common matches. Some matches overlap with some and not others, like this:
(https://lisalouisecooke.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/autoclusters.png)
You can find that some matches' trees might happen to have (supposed) ancestors in, but don't overlap with others that have them. In such cases, there might not be a link.
You could also have matches that indicate shared ancestry with a match, but there are no shared matches between you.
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No, I mean the name of the father is the same for my great great grandmother and my matches great grandmother. I have no idea who the mother of my great great grandmother is and my match has a name for the mother of her great grandmother, however I am not convinced it is accurate. I have been in touch with her and she told me she used ancestry info without any verification and from what I see the ancestry data is all over the place.
Is the cluster printout a tool from ancestry or dna painter ?
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she told me she used ancestry info without any verificationv and from what I see the ancestry data is all over the place.
All makes sense ;D
Is the cluster printout a tool from ancestry or DNA painter ?
MyHeritage has a tool to auto cluster matches. It's that. Would be very useful if Ancestry had that feature. But they insist on charging for less features than their competitors offer for free.
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I would look at her tree from the relevant grandparent and check her research
Maybe add a floating branch to your tree while you do this . Add all the siblings from censuses
Worth renewing your ancestry subscriptions for a month and adding pro tools . For an extra £7
They have a lot more features now
Among shared matches I also look at origins features even if a tree is closed you can see if a match is mostly Scottish or Welsh or if they have a Cornish ancestor which may confirm the English ancestor in common.
It's worth making colour code clusters for origins and locations.
For example even if you have no names in common a particular town or county may show up in trees
Where is your matches great grandmother from ? Where are your ancestors from ?
Ps 4b2 great chart id love to be able to make one like that for names and another for locations
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I tried the auto cluster tool on myheritage and my match does not appear, however she is mentioned. It states that she met the inclusion criteria however ended up in singleton clusters without other members and so was excluded from the analysis.
I used the chromosome browser tool also and myself, my match and another match I also know to be connected ( but was also excluded from the cluster tool analysis ) share 2 triangulated segments, which apparently suggest all inherited from a common ancestor.
I checked over the tree for my match for the bits relevant to me and seems to me like it is legitimate.
My great great grandmother and the great grandmother of my match originate from County Kerry, Ireland. That is one of the problems as the family records can be quite limited and patchy compared to say the UK or New Zealand where my match is from.