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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: emjsw on Friday 28 February 25 21:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Please could someone help me work out where John Busby is from, I expected him to be from Cleveley (Enstone) which may have has multiple spellings but now I am not too sure. The place is in the county of Oxford (I couldn't fit that bit in as it made the file to big).
Any thoughts or suggestions would be gratefully received.
Best wishes,
Emma
ps I will add other samples below but am struggling with file size!
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a bit more, perhaps they mis transcribed it as Clisley or Clifely rather than Cleveley? I don't think it is Chosely but it could be somewhere else?
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North Aston and Walton
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Last sample James Annsley/Ausley Eynsham
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The name Choley leapt out at me which is very unusual for this older style writing
I wonder if it is Cholsey?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholsey
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Hi,
Thanks so much for taking a look. Much appreciated. I can't work out the letter between the h/l at the start and the o.
It is such a shame, it is a 4 page document and this isn't repeated or if it is, it is in the text that is damaged or torn off!!!
Best wishes :)
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Some thoughts:
1. I'm not at all convinced that it begins with C. Can you please find and clip one or two examples each of both C and O for comparison.
2. No modern forms of h are visible in the posted clips. Unless you can see an example elsewhere, the second letter is likely to be l.
3. There's an apparent top of a long-s near the middle of the word. However, other examples of long-s in his writing - Busby, last, Aston, Ansley and Ensham - don't have this type of tall and curvaceous top. Can you find another example with this top?
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To avoid the problems with file size, see the posts referenced below. This allows you to use the resolution available from a large image file to put a decent area of readable text onto your screen. A snip created from the screen will be equally readable but has a much smaller file size.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=848872.msg7161611#msg7161611
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It looks to me like Clifeley, i.e. Cleveley near Enstone, Oxon. In the Common Pleas records f and v are often interchangeable, for exampe Clyff/Clyve. There are several people named Busby recorded in Cleveley, for example William Busby of Clyveley, husbandman, in 1531:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/H8/CP40no1068/aCP40no1068fronts/IMG_1021.htm
In this record, in 1530, it looks like and is indexed as Clesley (William Busby of Clesley, husbandman), but must be Clefley/Cleveley:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/H8/CP40no1064/aCP40no1064fronts/IMG_6881.htm
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Some thoughts:
1. I'm not at all convinced that it begins with C. Can you please find and clip one or two examples each of both C and O for comparison.
2. No modern forms of h are visible in the posted clips. Unless you can see an example elsewhere, the second letter is likely to be l.
3. There's an apparent top of a long-s near the middle of the word. However, other examples of long-s in his writing - Busby, last, Aston, Ansley and Ensham - don't have this type of tall and curvaceous top. Can you find another example with this top?
Hi,
Thanks very much for taking a look and for going to ask of the trouble of looking into the various letters to work out what the word says.
Thanks also for the link and advice regarding the file size too.
I think Vance in the message below might have worked it out from similar words on the aalt law site, it looks like f was used rather than v.
I was expecting John to be of Cleveley as he inherited the mill from his father William there but just want sure because of the way it had been written.
I appreciate all that you have done.
Best wishes,
Emma
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It looks to me like Clifeley, i.e. Cleveley near Enstone, Oxon. In the Common Pleas records f and v are often interchangeable, for exampe Clyff/Clyve. There are several people named Busby recorded in Cleveley, for example William Busby of Clyveley, husbandman, in 1531:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/H8/CP40no1068/aCP40no1068fronts/IMG_1021.htm
In this record, in 1530, it looks like and is indexed as Clesley (William Busby of Clesley, husbandman), but must be Clefley/Cleveley:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/H8/CP40no1064/aCP40no1064fronts/IMG_6881.htm
Hi Vance,
Thanks very much for clearing this up and for providing the links showing the various spellings of Cleveley, I appreciate your help as this now solves a big brick wall I have had for ~2 years!
In Richard Busby's 1539 will (Great Tew) he mentioned his son William and William's sons John and Richard who had substantial inheritances from Richard.
Unlike the other people in Richard's will, I couldn't find William and his family but wondered if William Busby of Cleveley Enstone could be a contender, in his 1549 will he mentioned only 2 son's, John and Richard.
The snip I posted was regarding a court case involving one of William's proposed brothers Edmund who, in his will, referred to his 'cousin' John Busby.
I now know that this John was likely Edmund's nephew and was of Cleveley making it highly likely that he was the son of William both mentioned by Richard Busby 1539 and therfore William Busby 1549 was Richard Busby's son!
Sadly John didn't leave a will that I can find so I can't prove where he ended up (I think he might have had a son called Thomas who had a son called John who brought Addington manor Bucks).
My next mission is to prove the relationship between John Busby d. 1530 Burford and Robert Busby d1541/2 Chipping Norton and Richard Busby d. 1539. I suspect they were brothers. Ultimately I am trying to find if they are all sons of William Busby who's brass is in Great Tew church, he died 1513, I also want to find out what the maiden name of wife Agnes was.
Unfortunately the Oxfordshire Wills Index doesn't start till 1516. Apart from his brass it is like he never existed! I am hoping for some clues in the Bodleian next week, it is like a treasure hunt!
Thanks again and best wishes,
Emma
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In the will (PCC) of Richard Busbye of Tew, 1539, he mentions three sons to be executors:
I will ordeyn and make John Busby, William Busby and Edmond Busby my sonnes to be myn executours.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D978170
In 1545, John Busby, William Busby and Edmund Busby, the executors of Richard Busby, were plaintiffs in Common Pleas.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/aalt1/H8/CP40no1124/aCP40no1124fronts/IMG_0378.htm
In The Oxfordshire Muster Rolls are the two brothers William and Edmund, as well as Richard.
https://oxrecsoc.org/publications
1542 Edmond Busbye, Chipping Norton, archer (page 37)
1542 Richard Busby, Over Norton, billman (page 40)
1542 William Busby, Cleveley, archer (page 48)
A billman was lower status than an archer, so Richard must be William's son.
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Hi Vance,
This is fantastic, thank you so much, I hadn't found them in the Common Pleas before, it is interesting that Wyatt is also mentioned as the Wyatts are mentioned in the wills of the Deddington Busby's suggesting a possible common link.
Thanks also for the link to the muster rolls, that is so interesting as it gives you a bit of an insight into their daily lives, I like that William and Edmund were an archers!
Edmond wrote his will c.1558 in Hagbourne, it looks like perhaps before he married Eleanor Angers, widow of William Keate and moved there that he might have lived in Chipping Norton. I presume Robert Busby of Over Norton who left a will in 1542 was Edmund's uncle, he had 5 sons, 3 were under 21 in 1542. Richard son of Robert (Edmund's possible cousin) was over 21 so is probably the bilman.
Thanks so much again for your help.
Best wishes,
Emma