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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: overlandermatt on Wednesday 26 February 25 19:38 GMT (UK)
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My GG grandfather is Edward Brock. His son William Edward was born in Devonport in 1862 and I have always struggled to track the family down with a little more certainty. There are a few erroneous trees on Ancestry and elsewhere. I started looking into him back in 2017 and had a few helpful pointers here. I thought I would pick up on this ancestor again and try to find some more information.
Edward Brock died on 25th March 1870 aged 45. A newspaper report suggests he died at the Tavistock Inn but his death certificate states elsewhere in Devonport (Quarry Street?)... His wife Mary Jane Brock was an Innkeeper at the inn in the 1871 census.
They had married in 1861 when Edward was 25(I'm a bit concerned about this inaccuracy as the evidence suggests he is older). Interestingly, his deceased father William is listed as a farmer from the wonderfully named Broadwoodwidger in north Devon.
I never managed to find Edward in the 1861 census. I wonder what happened to him? He was to marry later that year to Mary Jane Every, a widow with 3 daughters.
In the 1851 census, I think the family were living in Stoke Damerel - parents William and Martha (both 52), Edward 23 a blacksmith and younger sisters Jane H and Sarah. Interestingly, the family other than the youngest are listed as being Cornish. Markham is listed as the place of birth but is most likely Marhamchurch. I couldn't find a Markham.
The 1841 census had a likely match in Broadwoodwidger. The ages look a bit off but given the list of names, it looks like there are 3 generations of Brocks all resident in the one place.
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
William Brock Male 35 1806 -
Martha Brock Female 35 1806 -
William Brock Male 15 1826 -
Thomas Brock Male 12 1829 -
Edward Brock Male 10 1831 -
John Brock Male 7 1834 -
Jane Brock Female 5 1836 -
Sarah Brock Female 3 1838 Devon, England
Ann Jewell Female 15 1826 Devon, England
William Brock Male 70 1771 -
Sarah Brock Female 70 1771 -
Similar names can be found in the Marhamchurch parish transcriptions for baptisms so I think I have the right family... Does this sound reasonable? There have been a number of different William Brocks appearing in family trees that don't seem to be a good match.
I'm struggling to track down Edward Brock in 1861 and his father William who died sometime between 1851 in Stoke Damerel and 1861 when his widow Martha is in the census back in Broadwoodwidger...
Thanks in advance for any answers anyone might come up with.
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GRO Index
William Brock death recorded Stoke Damerel March quarter 1858 age 56 Vol. 05B page 242
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Re Edward in 1861, have you found his wife to be in 1861 in case they were together?
The age is a bit concerning if he only leaps from 23 to 25 :-\
Probably should be 35, do you have the actual certificate with it on? If so what was his residence at the time of marriage then can search for that address in 1861.
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Notes: I'm posting since I found it.
William Brock Jr. of Marhamchurch married Martha Hacker of Poundstock 13 May 1822 at Poundstock.
witness is William Hacker and J Symons
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GRO Index
William Brock death recorded Stoke Damerel March quarter 1858 age 56 Vol. 05B page 242
Thanks for that! I'll check it out. It may help explain why his widow returned to north Devon.
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Children of William Brock Jr. and Martha nee Hacker all baptised at Marhamchurch
William bap 24 May 1823
Thomas bap. 6 March 1825
*Edward bap 16 November 1826
John bap. 17 February 1829
Jane Hobbs bap. 9 March 1832
Sarah bap. 29 December 1833
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1861 Martha Brock widow 61 born Poundstock Cornwall is with her sister.
John Bray married Ann Hacker 2 January 1817 at Poundstock Cornwall
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Re Edward in 1861, have you found his wife to be in 1861 in case they were together?
The age is a bit concerning if he only leaps from 23 to 25 :-\
Probably should be 35, do you have the actual certificate with it on? If so what was his residence at the time of marriage then can search for that address in 1861.
I do have the marriage certificate. He is 25 and working as a coal merchant delivery man. The address for both is Mount Street.
Interestingly, I did find Mary Every and her 3 daughters in the 1861 census. No sign of Edward though... Mary's father in law was there though.
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Mary Jane Hambly married William Every 1848 reg. Plymouth
children
Elizabeth Every 1849 reg. Liskeard
Jane Hambly Every 1850 reg. Stoke Damerel
Mary Every 1851 reg. Stoke Damerel died 1852 age 0
Mary Susan Every 1854 reg. Stoke Damerel .
1861 she age 32 -Servant and daughters are at 6 Mount Street with father in law Thomas Every retired Farmer
ADDED
William Every died 1857 age 34 reg. Stoke Damerel
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No luck at all with finding him in 1861. Maybe he was lodging with wife to be and just wasn’t put down on the census.
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Thanks Milliepede.
I've been looking all over for him but without luck to date... I've yet to search out his siblings so perhaps a clue will materialise in due course!
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I'm still trying to fill in a few gaps with the Brocks...
William Edward Brock was the only child that I could find for Edward and Mary Jane Brock... I have him in all the census returns except 1881. He did join the Royal Navy and was aboard HMS Belleisle - which spent a lot of time in Ireland. I didn't manage to find the ship in the 1881 census - not sure how to do that in FindMyPast... Just wondering if he is there?
Still searching for Mary Jane Brock after the death of Edward Brock in 1870. I have her in the 1871 census as innkeeper at the Tavistock Inn but nothing further. There are a couple of weddings in the area in 1875 and 1877 but it's not clear who the potential spouse is... Tutte, Full and Burn were three options. I might be missing how to find this information quickly from the Index...
Would be great to know what happened to her! Thank you in advance.
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Not easy from an index to determine the correct spouse. I look for the husbands on the next census to see what their wives are called. If one is Mary Jane then cross check her age/place of birth with Mary Jane Brock.
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Re the 1877 marriage options
John Full has wife Melinda in 1881 so that rules him out.
The other groom John Burn. Can’t find him in 1881 yet.
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Re the 1875 marriage options
Charles Tutte has a wife Mary Jane. In 1891 she is 35 born Plymouth.
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In 1911 there’s a Mary Jane Burns with husband John married 1877.
She is born 1825 Landros Cornwall. No children.
Could be a different couple.
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Thanks Milliepede. Much appreciated.
Charles Tutte doesn't seem a good fit given the age and birth place.
1823 in Lanallos, Cornwall is ideally what we are looking for. The Burns in 1911 is close...
I suspect there won't be more children to help identify this. Presumably it will come down to the marriage certificate.
I've seen a number of trees that have Mary Jane ending up in various different scenarios... One included a death in Ontario.
Thanks again!
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Will have a look for the 1911 couple but the no children is a clue she was an older bride. Which we know anyway from her age.
Her daughters didn’t have very long lives did they :(.
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1891 just has Cornwall for birthplace born 1827
1901 transcribed as Burrs has Lancallas Cornwall born 1827, when you look at the image it looks like Lanoellas which is pretty close to what you said with Lanallos.
As for a death there’s a Mary A Burn age 94 death in 1919 East Stonehouse. Closest I can see so far.
Also a John Burn age 92 death in 1919 East Stonehouse. Likely to be that couple I think but we still haven’t proved she was your Mary Jane Brock.
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Am I being silly in suggesting this baptism.
Edward BROOK 16th November 1826 Marhamchurch. Parents William & Martha.
SS
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Will have a look for the 1911 couple but the no children is a clue she was an older bride. Which we know anyway from her age.
Her daughters didn’t have very long lives did they :(.
I've not investigated Mary Jane's daughters yet - I think one died at birth but I've not looked at the other 3 in detail post the 1861 census. I'll be ordering a few death certificates I can imagine...
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Thanks for the information. Burns looks to be the best bet of those suggested. Getting hold of a marriage certificate will be the next step.
1891 just has Cornwall for birthplace born 1827
1901 transcribed as Burrs has Lancallas Cornwall born 1827, when you look at the image it looks like Lanoellas which is pretty close to what you said with Lanallos.
As for a death there’s a Mary A Burn age 94 death in 1919 East Stonehouse. Closest I can see so far.
Also a John Burn age 92 death in 1919 East Stonehouse. Likely to be that couple I think but we still haven’t proved she was your Mary Jane Brock.
I've yet to investigate Mary Jane's siblings. She was with elder sister Rebecca in 1841 if I have the right record. There may be some clues to be had there.
I don't know if she had any more children with Edward Brock. Married in 1861, he was born in 1862 and then Edward died in 1870. It's unusual in my tree to have a single child but she was almost 40 at that stage.
I will get back on this later this evening. Thanks again.
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Am I being silly in suggesting this baptism.
Edward BROOK 16th November 1826 Marhamchurch. Parents William & Martha.
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Yes, this is the Edward Brock in question. My thread has deviated a bit off course from the Brocks! I have almost everything I think I can fnd on Edward. I've yet to look at his siblings... His father died in Plymouth in 1858 but I've not finished looking at the mother Martha. I think she might have remarried and ended up in Cornwall but it's yet to be confirmed. So much to do!
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I've not investigated Mary Jane's daughters yet - I think one died at birth but I've not looked at the other 3 in detail post the 1861 census. I'll be ordering a few death certificates I can imagine...
Oh whoops I've jumped ahead of you a bit then sorry don't want to spoil your own investigations.
Any help you need with them just ask.
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The mystery of Mary Jane looks to be solved thank you Milliepede.
The death certificate for Mary Ann Burn did indeed have son William Edward Brock present at the death. I'll have to do some digging in the Burns now to find out what she was up to between 1877 and 1919. Her address in Newport Street may have a connection with her daughter-in-law's family. Reaching the age of 94 was fairly unusual in those days. Her granddaughter, my grandmother also died aged 94.
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That’s great, couldn’t have worked out better than for him to be the informant.
She is on every census together with John from 1881-1911.
He died the same quarter and was 92 so they both reached a good age.
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I've been looking at Mary Jane Hambly/Every/Brock/Burn's daughters from the marriage to William Every...
I am struggling to find out what happened to the second daughter, Jane Hambly Every b1850 in Devonport. I have her in the 1851 and 1861 censuses at home and then in 1881 working as a servant. I can't find her elsewhere... She witnessed the wedding of her youngest sister in 1877 but the rest is a mystery.
There were 4 sisters - one died shortly after birth and the other two at the age of 39. If any super sleuths can help, that would be much appreciated.
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I can't find Jane either. She could have married between 1881-1891 but nothing obvious under Every in Devon :-\
There is a family tree with her on but nothing more than you already have.
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Thanks Milliepede. It's a bit of a mystery...
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Just looking through 1891 options
As transcribed there is this little family in Whitechapel
Jane Relland 41 head born 1850 Devonport
with son Albert 8 and daughter Jane 7 both born Whitechapel
but I can't see the births under Relland :-\
Added - they are under Kellard and MMN Eyre
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Hi Milliepede, without being pedantic Albert is 10 in 1891.
SS
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Possibly,
Marriages Dec 1871
Eyre Jane St Geo East 1c 1057
Kellard John St Geo East 1c 1057
KELLARD, ALBERT FREDERICK EYRE
GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 3
KELLARD, JANE EYRE
GRO Reference: 1883 S Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 344
SS
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Yes that looks like it so another Jane to rule out.
Maybe she went overseas, could check passenger lists just in case.
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I've been looking for a few more clues... I don't have the subscription to check for shipping records but I did come across a name on the death certificate of elder sister Elizabeth's death certificate in 1888. I cannot make out the name - could it be Jane?
Any thoughts much appreciated as always.
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Also been looking into the Jane's younger sister Mary Susan Every. She also died at a fairly young age in 1893 and I don't think had any children.
She married a Royal Marine in 1877 - George Beardy. He was supposedly from either Nottingham or Derby. It's a bit odd but I can't find much information on him. His Royal Marines record (he served 21 years between 1872 and 1893) suggests he was born in Nottingham in 1852. He then did 3 years in the Royal Navy 1895 to 1897 but his RN record suggests he was from Derby. I've not found out anything more about him. He was in the 1881 census in Malta and the 1891 at home in East Stonehouse.
Am I missing anything obvious? Thank you in advance!
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I've been looking for a few more clues... I don't have the subscription to check for shipping records but I did come across a name on the death certificate of elder sister Elizabeth's death certificate in 1888. I cannot make out the name - could it be Jane?
Any thoughts much appreciated as always.
I think it is her sister-in-law Eliza WALL who married James William HOSKIN.
Debra :)
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Thanks Debra.
Not the outcome I was looking for but it doesn't always work out! I was unaware there were other Wall family members in Plymouth. I've not investigated the families of the spouses yet.
The search goes on!