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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: baytree1970 on Monday 24 February 25 19:43 GMT (UK)
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I can't seem to find this family on the 1861 census - would be grateful for any help:
David H Jones (b.1833, worked as an iron puddler) and wife Gwenllian (née Watkins), plus sons Edward (born 1858 at Tredegar Road, Rhymney) and David (born 1861, also Tredegar Road Rhymney). Another son Thomas was born in 1865 but I don't have his birth cert.
The family later emigrated to the USA where they appear on the 1870 and later censuses. US death certificates confirm their parents were Edward Watkins and Catherine Jones, and LLewellyn Jones. I'm not sure about David's father being Llewellyn - this info was reported by David's son Llewellyn on the death cert and so he may not have known the true facts. A marriage in 1857 in Bedwellty between David Jones and Gwenllian Watkins gives father's name as David Jones - it matches other details in every respect.
Gwenllian appears to be the daughter of Edward and Catharine Watkins, and in 1851 is found on Tredegar Road, Rhymney, living with her parents. In 1841 they're at Gelligaer.
The relevant census for Tredegar Road appears to be BEDWELLTY > TREDEGAR > DISTRICT 17 but neither the Joneses nor the Watkins appear.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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Looks like they emigrated in 1863 - see 3rd column under Original Correspondence
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3073423/3073427/10/tredegar%2BOR%2Broad%2BAND%2Bdavid%2BOR%2Bjones
I wonder if Gwillim Jones is a misprint for Gwenllian
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Looks like they emigrated in 1863 - see 3rd column under Original Correspondence
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3073423/3073427/10/tredegar%2BOR%2Broad%2BAND%2Bdavid%2BOR%2Bjones
I wonder if Gwillim Jones is a misprint for Gwenllian
Thanks, this is a great find.
The question remains though, where are they in 1861 since Edward Watkins gives his address as Tredegar Road, Rhymney when this letter appears in 1863? Any thoughts?
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This index is Free to search but to view results requires subscription.
The Albert Gallatin sailed for New York from Liverpool "cleared for sea Aug 20th 1863, Collingwood Dock" - which fits July date of letter in newspaper. One passenger was a David Jones, age 30, born GB, year of arrival 1863.
Search "Statue of Liberty" passenger lists - click on "One Page Form" to refine search.
https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/passenger
However, cannot locate a Gwenllian (or similar) or Edward 5, David 2 accompanying this David.
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Thanks. I found a passenger list for the ship 'SIDON' arriving in New York on 14 July which has both Edward and Cath Watkins, as well as a party comprising David Jones, Mrs Jones, sons Edward and David, and also a Mary Watkins with them, who appears to be another the daughter of Ed and Cath Watkins. Furthermore, Mary is listed in Edward's letter about emigration. I also found a number of the other names in the letter aboard other ships, all arriving c.July/August 1863 in New York from Liverpool
HOWEVER - what I am struggling with is that the Watkins / Jones party could have arrived by 14 July in New York when Edward signed his letter 7 July whilst still in Wales. I gather it took about 8 days or more for a steamer to reach New York, so unless he postdated his letter, surely he couldn't have got there that fast. Also he's described as a farmer on the ship's list whilst on the census he's a collier.
But the precise match in names and ages for the Jones party seems compelling.
STILL no luck finding any of them in 1861
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See link below re missing 1861 pieces for Wales. 21 pieces for Monmouthshire are missing
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/census-for-england-wales-and-scotland-missing-pieces
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See link below re missing 1861 pieces for Wales. 21 pieces for Monmouthshire are missing
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/census-for-england-wales-and-scotland-missing-pieces
Thanks, that's interesting.
In this case I have found the relevant census return for Tredegar Road, Rhymney - Bedwellty > Tredegar > District 17. Tredegar Road was address given by Edward Watkins in his 1863 letter, and also where he was recorded on the 1851 census, and also where the Jones family lived in 1851. I've leafed through all the pages and cannot find them.
I'm STUCK!
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Worth noting that David and Gwenllian's son David was born on 29 March 1861 at Tredegar Road, Rumney according to his GRO birth cert. and the 1861 census was taken on 7 April 1861.
Surely they would still have been at that address?!
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I have found the relevant census return for Tredegar Road, Rhymney - Bedwellty > Tredegar > District 17.
What piece number & folio is it?
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I have found the relevant census return for Tredegar Road, Rhymney - Bedwellty > Tredegar > District 17.
What piece number & folio is it?
Not sure, where do I find that info please?
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Your reply says you have found the relevant census return for the road so you presumably have names of residents? Turn up the actual entry for that resident to get the piece/folio/page number
I suspect you haven't actually found any image for that road - is that correct? I don't know what you have found or where you have found it
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Piece 4000, folio 65
I'm using Ancestry, so I've seen the images for the census and I've been through it page by page reading names off the image rather than relying on Ancestry's indexing/transcriptions.
Tredegar Road starts on page one and runs for a number of pages.
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As Mabel Bagshawe said there are missing 1861 censues. Those on the FindMyPast do not include the area Tredgar Rd was in, however, those are only the ones known (as the description says).
So looking at Trdegar Rd, there would appear to be missing houses.
The houses go 50-54 on schedule 66-70 p. 11 f 70, followed by 54-59 schedules 71-77 on what would be page 12.
Not sure if the enumerator has made a mistake then because the next page in the sequence is page 19 but numbered folio 71, for houses numbered 87-92, schedules 118-127.
So it would appear that pages 13 -18 are missing for house numbers 60-86. Number 59 was to let and the next entry is no. 87, which should obviously start on a non-existant previous page, since it's for Llewellyn Lloyd aged 5 born Rhymney, down as a son. However although there would appear to pages missing, the folio numbers look to be sequentially correct 70-71.
Edward Watkins born Penderin Breconshire, Catherine born Llangatwg Glamorgan, and Gwenllian aged 14 born Bedwellty, are at Tredegar Rd in 1851
ED, institution, or vessel 23
Piece 2448
Folio 396
Page number 19
Household schedule number 71
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Yes, you're right, there are a couple of large gaps in the sequence of pages. That must account for it.
Thank you.