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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: andrewalston on Friday 21 February 25 10:44 GMT (UK)

Title: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: andrewalston on Friday 21 February 25 10:44 GMT (UK)
I'm looking into a CAHILL family in the Wigan area. The family were RC, so not many events are online. The surname appears to be Irish; others in the district originate there.

John and Elizabeth had six children:
John b Q4 1882
Sarah b Q3 1884
Rose Ann b Q1 1887
Maria b 13 Apr 1889 (registered as CARL)
Elizabeth b 14 Sep 1891
Margaret b Q2 1895
All these have a mother's maiden name of HAWLEY or close approximation.

In 1901 and later, Elizabeth is widowed, and claims to be born about 1859 in Leigh. She died in 1924 and is buried in a shared grave.

I can't find a marriage for John and Elizabeth.

I can't find the family in 1891.

I can't reliably find John or Elizabeth before then either.

Maria was born in Ince. Elizabeth was born at Danson's Square, Wigan. The family are not at either address in the 1891 census. I have both these birth certs; Elizabeth made her mark both times. John is a colliery surface labourer in 1889, a coke burner in 1891.

There is a death and burial of a John Cahill in 1890. The burial mentions Adelaide Street, which is where the family were living in 1901.

Maria and Rose Ann are the sort of names which ought to be indexed, but I've not had any luck on Ancestry or FindMyPast.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: Kay99 on Friday 21 February 25 11:09 GMT (UK)
1891 - Some of them? 4  Dansons Square Wigan

George   Westby   Head 50   Colliery labourer   Bolton, Lancashire, England
Mary   Westby   Wife 40   Bolton, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth   Carrol   Boarder  Married   36   Cotton factory operative   Leigh, Lancashire
Jane   Carrol Boarder 7   Cotton factory operative ?  Pemberton, Lancashire, England
Maria   Carrol   Boarder 2    Ince, Lancashire, England
Title: Re: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: Kay99 on Friday 21 February 25 11:19 GMT (UK)
Jane above is transcibed as 17 but I originally thought the number looked more like 7 but maybe could be 17  :-\
Title: Re: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: emeltom on Friday 21 February 25 11:41 GMT (UK)
Even if it was an RC marriage, in theory if it took plave then the GRO should have it indexed.

The closest I can find is John Cahill married Elizabeth Holley in 1874 at Wigan Register Office

Dec 1874 Wigan 8c 116

If John died in 1890 then who is the father of Elizabeth and Margaret?
Title: Re: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: DCB on Friday 21 February 25 11:45 GMT (UK)
Just found the same marriage.

Also, there was a Jane Carrol, mmn Hawley, registered in Wigan in 1875.

Jane and Maria, b 1889, are with their mother, as Carrol, in Wigan in 1891. Elizabeth born in Leigh.

Title: Re: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: andrewalston on Friday 21 February 25 11:54 GMT (UK)
Great spot! I'm convinced it's the right family.

I'm trying to think why I missed them.  ???

All I have to do now is find them in 1881 and I'll know where John came from!
Title: Re: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: andrewalston on Friday 21 February 25 12:13 GMT (UK)
Even if it was an RC marriage, in theory if it took plave then the GRO should have it indexed.

The closest I can find is John Cahill married Elizabeth Holley in 1874 at Wigan Register Office

Dec 1874 Wigan 8c 116

If John died in 1890 then who is the father of Elizabeth and Margaret?

The marriage looks good.

The "father" of the later children could easily be the reason why John is not home!
Title: Re: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: DCB on Friday 21 February 25 15:48 GMT (UK)
There is a strange entry for a Jane Cail, born 1874 in Pemberton, in 1881, daughter of Elizabeth, together with brother, John, b 1881.

I can't find a births that fit the surname.

Her parents are William Nancy Garner. Possible marriage on 26th April 1858 of William to Nancy Midcalfe, although a spinster, aged 40.

There was an Elizabeth Hawley, born 1854 in Leigh, mmn Midcalf.
Title: Re: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: andrewalston on Friday 21 February 25 15:54 GMT (UK)
I'd found that one too. CA-IL seems a decent bet.

I'm trying to work out how that family fits together. Stepchildren make it more difficult.
Title: Re: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: Kay99 on Friday 21 February 25 16:02 GMT (UK)
I noticed those as well and got rather tied up with the 1854 birth for Elizabeth Hawley and ended looking at it
Title: Re: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: DCB on Friday 21 February 25 16:36 GMT (UK)
This is the family in 1861:-

Little Lane, Pemberton, Wigan, Lancashire
William Garner Head Married Male 38 1823 Colliery labourer -
Nancy Garner Wife Married Female 47 1814 ... woman -
Charles Hooley Son - Male 13 1848 Factory boy Chester, Cheshire
Elizabeth Hooley Daughter - Female 7 1854 Scholar Lancashire
Title: Re: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Friday 21 February 25 19:49 GMT (UK)
Looks like Jane was b c1875

1881 census - Pemberton

William Garner 53 b Chester  ag lab
Nancy Garner  69   b Chester
Charles Healy  30  Step Son married  b Chester  coal miner
Elizabeth Cail   27  Daughter  married b Chester  cotton spinner
Peter Darbyshire   16  Grandson  b Pemberton
Jane Cail    7    Granddaughter    b Pemberton
John Cail        4 months Grandson  b Pemberton
Mary E. Healey   1    Granddaughter  b Pemberton
Title: Re: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: DCB on Saturday 22 February 25 09:39 GMT (UK)
Some possible:-

1851 - Warrington Road, Leigh, Lancashire
Ann Hawley Head Married Female 40 1811 - Woolley, Cheshire
John Hawley Son - Male 7 1844 - Durham, Lancashire
Charles Hawley Son - Male 4 1847 - Bowdon, Cheshire

Separate address
Warrington Road, Leigh, Lancashire
Robert Hawley Lodger Married Male 45 1806 Ag lab Lowton, Lancashire

John Hawley b Q2 1843 in Sunderland mmn Metcalf

Charles Holey baptised in Chester, St John, on 21st March 1847, son of Robert and Ann
Title: Re: Hiding somewhere in Wigan
Post by: DCB on Monday 24 February 25 09:55 GMT (UK)
Looking at the marriage certificate for Nancy to William Garner, she named her father as Charles Midcalfe.

One of her birth places on the censuses looks like Walsey, Cheshire, which might be Wallasey.

A possible baptism might be Nanny Midcalf, or Medcalf, on 16th April 1813, daughter of Charles and Sarah, of Frankby, in West Kirby.

Charles Metcalfe married Sarah White on 19th August 1810 in Neston.
Sarah baptised in Neston on 14th August 1785, d of Robert and Mary.

Other children include William Metcalfe 1819 in Wallasey and, in West Kirby, George Medcalf 1811, Robert Metcalf in 1815, and John Metcalf in 1817.

Charles and Sarah moved to Flintshire and had more children: Alice 1822, Elizabeth 1822, Elinor 1826, Matthew 1829, Mary 1833, and Martha 1834.

Sarah died in 1848 and was buried in Hawarden on 22nd May 1848.

1841 - Brook, Little, Hawarden, Great Boughton, Flintshire
Charles Medcalf Male 66 1775 Flintshire, Wales
Sarah Medcalf Female 55 1786 Flintshire, Wales
Matthew Medcalf Male 9 1832 Flintshire, Wales
Martha Medcalf Female 5 1836 Flintshire, Wales