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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Horsley2016 on Wednesday 19 February 25 13:32 GMT (UK)

Title: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Horsley2016 on Wednesday 19 February 25 13:32 GMT (UK)
I am having real trouble attaching an image of the handwriting I am having difficulty reading so I'm sorry to do this rather long winded way.

I am looking at the records for Sarah Coburn (MMN Leavis) 1851 England Census. She is at 172 Henderson St, Toxteth Park, Lancashire. She is aged 60 and the wife of Charles Coburn a Shipwright born in Cumbria, Penrith. The Head of this household is a John Essey, a 42 year old Shipwright born in Denton, Sussex.

It is Sarah's place of birth I am trying to decipher on this 1851 Census. The 1841 census confirms she is born out of county- but not the place. The 1861 Census suggests Dartmouth, Devon (she is living with her daughter Sarah Young in St Bees Whitehaven by then, but I have no other proof of this.) She has died by 1863.

Any thought on what this place reads would be welcome. The first word does look like 'Devon' but it may be my eyes deceiving me!

M

Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Milliepede on Wednesday 19 February 25 13:41 GMT (UK)
Will have a look but as an aside have you the marriage or a baptism for her which may give the place?
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: ShaunJ on Wednesday 19 February 25 13:42 GMT (UK)
It looks like the enumerator has started to write Cumbria again then changed it to Devon.  I can't make out the name of the town but it doesn't look like Dartmouth.
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Milliepede on Wednesday 19 February 25 13:48 GMT (UK)
No idea what that says but it’s been transcribed as Aughton. 
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Tickettyboo on Wednesday 19 February 25 13:54 GMT (UK)
P2187/F399/pg14

Ancestry have transcribed it as Devon, Aughton, FindMyPast have it as Devon England
 and though I cant make it out, I don't think its either of those but agree the county does say Devon.

 Devon not an area I am familiar with so can't make an educated guess.
Boo
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: ShaunJ on Wednesday 19 February 25 14:04 GMT (UK)
There's a Sarah Leeves baptism in 1791 at Chardstock, Devon. Parents Joseph and Elizabeth.
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Tickettyboo on Wednesday 19 February 25 14:47 GMT (UK)
Family Search have transcribed it as Kingmoor
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGP5-W6P?lang=en

Boo
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Milliepede on Wednesday 19 February 25 14:49 GMT (UK)
Isn’t there a Kingswear in Devon? 
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Tickettyboo on Wednesday 19 February 25 15:05 GMT (UK)
Isn’t there a Kingswear in Devon?

Yes
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Kingswear/Gaz1868

and its near Dartmouth, so could well fit with the later census?

Boo
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Horsley2016 on Wednesday 19 February 25 15:06 GMT (UK)
Will have a look but as an aside have you the marriage or a baptism for her which may give the place?

Thank you. Sadly I have neither which is so frustrating! The name ‘Leavis’ doesn’t exist much in Devon.Lavis does but even that doesn’t help me find any relation!
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Horsley2016 on Wednesday 19 February 25 15:07 GMT (UK)
It looks like the enumerator has started to write Cumbria again then changed it to Devon.  I can't make out the name of the town but it doesn't look like Dartmouth.

Thank you - yes I could see how it looks like the beginning of a C, hadn’t noticed it before.
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Horsley2016 on Wednesday 19 February 25 15:08 GMT (UK)
There's a Sarah Leeves baptism in 1791 at Chardstock, Devon. Parents Joseph and Elizabeth.

Thank you so much Shaun. I’ll take a look at that - not come across that record before.
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Horsley2016 on Wednesday 19 February 25 15:12 GMT (UK)
Isn’t there a Kingswear in Devon?

Yes
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Kingswear/Gaz1868

and its near Dartmouth, so could well fit with the later census?

Boo

Oh goodness - this looks like something to take a really close look at. A million thanks for the connecting lead.
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Tickettyboo on Wednesday 19 February 25 15:16 GMT (UK)
Out of interest, if you have neither the marriage nor the baptism record, where did the surname Leavis come from?

You described Leavis as her "MMN" - did you mean her mother's maiden name or Sarah's maiden name?
as without either record I am struggling to see where it came from and if you can explain then that 'may' help the search.

Boo
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Horsley2016 on Wednesday 19 February 25 15:30 GMT (UK)
Out of interest, if you have neither the marriage nor the baptism record, where did the surname Leavis come from?

You described Leavis as her "MMN" - did you mean her mother's maiden name or Sarah's maiden name?
as without either record I am struggling to see where it came from and if you can explain then that 'may' help the search.

Boo

That’s a good point!!! It’s an old, old entry and having taken a look, I can’t answer the Q immediately off the top of my head!


Her 3rd Son is called Richard Leavis Coburne b1816 and he goes on to have a son of the same name b1839

Mind you, I’m also puzzled by her last child b1832 being called Mary Watson Coburn (though it’s been significantly easier tracking her line as a Mary Watson even after she marries a Henry Dixon!)


This is a line I’m revisiting from a few years ago, in the hope I have better knowledge thesedays but ….!!
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: Gillg on Wednesday 19 February 25 16:26 GMT (UK)
Could the place name be an old spelling of Paignton (Devon)?  Old spellings include Peynton, Payngton and Paington.  The town is in south west Devon.
Title: Re: 1851 place of birth help please
Post by: MollyC on Wednesday 19 February 25 19:53 GMT (UK)
I don't see a t for Paignton.  It looks as if it has been spelled Kingswar.  You need to compare the letters with others on the same page.  At Dartmouth, Kingswear is on the opposite bank of the River Dart, facing the town.