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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: Andrew C. on Monday 17 February 25 18:09 GMT (UK)
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I am at a bit of an impasse with my tree and just going over some things.
So I know my 3x great grandparents were William Cowie and Margaret Martin (taken from their son’s marriage certificate)
In 1841 they are at Queen Street, Peterhead William(30), Margaret (30) also sons George (4) and William (1). My 2x great grandfather, Alexander, was born in either 1842, 1843 or perhaps 1846.
I was trying to find William’s birth in 1810 and the only OPR I could find was a William born to Andrew Cowie and Isabel Brown in Old Deer in 1810. Which is a distinct possibility, however.
I am fairly confident that by 1851 William and Margaret had died. So in the 1851 census I find a George (14) and William Cowie (12) both born in Peterhead living with their Grandmother Isabel Brown in Fetterangus. The only other George and William the same age in 1841 are still alive and living with their Mother in Kirk Street, Peterhead. So looking good apart from where is Alexander?
Well it looks like he is in Ugie Street poor relief hostel with William (10).
From all this can I take it that the William, son of Andrew and Isabel is not mine? Out of curiosity then who are the parents of George and William in Fetterenangus and is it a coincidence or are they all related?
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Have you found the parents deaths on Scotlands People
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I believe William died in 1850 but no sign of Margaret.
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For the avoidance of duplication of effort, this looks like a duplicate or rehashing of an old thread https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714002.0
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The Peterhead baptism records do leave a bit to be desired - at the time you are interested in they didn't include the mother's name at all.
There are ten baptisms of children to William Cowie in Peterhead between 1820 and 1854 - see screenshot. If I were you I would want to see if any of the baptisms contains any clues that would allow you to sort them into families.
Also, how can you be sure that the William Cowie and Margaret in the 1841 census are your William C and Margaret Martin rather than someone else?
Is your Alexander the one who died in 1890 in Aberdeen aged 45? And is George C who died in Peterhead in 1913 his brother?
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I agree that William’s death seems to have been in 1850. What does it say on the burial record? Does it call him a widower? If Margaret was still alive she may have gone on to another marriage.
Isabella Brown born abt 1790 in Old Deer, living in North St, Fetterangus, Old Deer.
She is “unmarried” in the census records. If she is the grandmother, then her child (William or Margaret?) may have been illegitimate.
Isobel died in 1865 - Old Deer age 74
Her death certificate may give you useful information about the name and relation of the informant.
Who married first? George, William, or Alexander? What information do you get on the marriage record about their mother? Deceased? Remarried?
Have you looked in the Peterhead parish accounts / minutes for mention of poor relief payments, etc?
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Sorry this is a sort of rehash but still confused.
Not positive William and Margaret are mine, all I know for sure is Alexander’s parents are William and Margaret Martin and that couple are the only candidates I can see.
Yes my Alexander died in Aberdeen in 1890. I was working on the belief my Alexander was the one at Ugie Street along with William not Fetterangus and their brother George died before 1850 I think.
With George, William and Alexander being recurring names it isn’t obvious.
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Hmmm.
If Alexander was 21 on his wedding day, 1 January 1857, he must have been born in 1835, not in the 1840s.
Even if he had been born in the 1840s, the minimum legal age for a man to marry was 14, so even in the extremely unlikely event that he really was getting married at such a young age, he has to have been born before 1 January 1843.
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If Alexander was 21 on his wedding day, 1 January 1857, he must have been born in 1835, not in the 1840s.
I read the marriage year as 1867.
Date - January tenth.
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If Alexander was 21 on his wedding day, 1 January 1857, he must have been born in 1835, not in the 1840s.
I read the marriage year as 1867.
You could be right - still looks like a 5 to me.
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Curiouser and curiouser.
According to the index at Scotland's People, there were 6 Cowie children with mother's maiden surname Murcar or Murker born in Peterhead
Margaret 1872
Annabella 1875
Jane and Alexander (twins) 1877
Christian Ann 1881
Elizabeth 1884
so there's a gap between 1867 and 1872 when you'd expect there to be at least some older children. So where were Alexander and Jane living in the 1861 and 1871 censuses?
There's a death of a James Murcar Cowie, aged 57, in 1927. Is he one of theirs? Where and when was he born?
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1871 census
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/63dbe8dcf493fd29216a7684/alexr-cowie-1871-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1846-?locale=en
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Got him - b 1869, mmn not indexed.
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Thanks both the year isn’t clear but it is 1867.
Alexander and Jane had eight children in total and I think I am okay from that point on. I thought the William and Margaret were mine, but I suppose I can’t be sure, and from there I was hoping to go a generation back.
I will troll through the OPRs and see if anything jumps out.
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Spent a couple of hours looking at the census and OPRs for Peterhead. And I know there will be gaps but this is what I can see.
Births
1836 George father George
1837 George father William
1839 William Mearns father George
1842 William father William
1842 Alexander father William
1843 George father James
Deaths
George 1845 - 1848
1841
George age 5 with George and Jane
George age 4 with William and Margaret
William age 2 with George and Jane
William age 5 with Barbara
William age 1 with William and Margaret
1851
George age 14 with Grandmother Isabella
William age 12 with grandmother
William age 12 with Jane
William age 10 Orphan
Alexander age 8 Orphan
Alexander age 7 with Barbra
1861
Alexander 16 with Barbara
The OPR has William born to William in 1842 that can’t be the William aged one with William and Margaret in 1841.
To my surprise I found a death for George Cowie age 74 in 1913 in Peterhead he was born in Peterhead mother surname Martin. He married Isobella Hall in New Deer in 1861 and by 1871 they were in Peterhead. Is this the George with Isabella Brown? In 1841 Isobella is in Pitmillan, Foveran and Fetterangus in 1871 still carrying letters. I think this confirms that George and my Alexander are brothers. I need to confirm if it is the William and Margaret on the 1841 census with the other sibling William. Still need to work out where they are in 1851, the only George I can see is with Isabella so where is Alexander? If he is 21 in 1867 that doesn’t correspond with being 8 in 1851, he is 45 on his 1890 Death cert.
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To my surprise I found a death for George Cowie age 74 in 1913 in Peterhead he was born in Peterhead mother surname Martin. He married Isobella Hall in New Deer in 1861 and by 1871 they were in Peterhead.
What does the marriage certificate. say about parents - names and occupations and if deceased?
This would be a better way to confirm George and Alexander were brothers.
Do you have a marriage for William?
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Isobel BROWN 1841
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a140366f4040b9d6ee7d10f/isabell-brown-1841-aberdeenshire-old-deer-1791-?locale=en
Isobel BROWN 1851
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026774e9379091b1cd14de/isabel-brown-1851-aberdeenshire-old-deer-1790-?locale=en
Isobel BROWN 1861
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026ae5e9379091b1db4211/isobella-brown-1861-aberdeenshire-old-deer-1790-?locale=en
Isobel died in 1865 - Old Deer age 74
Her death certificate may give you useful information about the name and relation of the informant.
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Alexander’s marriage certificate is the one I posted earlier. Father William, mother Margaret Martin. I will get some SP credits later and check the certs.
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I was asking about George's marriage.
You might need to spend some credits to open up new avenues and / or eliminate others.
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The difficulty you are having sorting out your family in the 1851 census might be that William Cowie has been captured twice by mistake – once in poor house and again with grandmother Isobel Brown (age slightly different – but the same boy).
There is also this William Cowie of a similar age in the 1851 census, which you should probably eliminate.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026737e9379091b1cc1e37/william-cowie-1851-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1838-?locale=en
- a nephew to John Watson and wife Isabella BOYD
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I have been looking at 2 families in 1841 census Peterhead
1) Kirk Street - George Cowie (5) and William Cowie (2) with parents George Cowie (28) and Jane Mearns (married 1834 Peterhead)
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a1402daf4040b9d6ee7175e/george-cowie-1841-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1836-?locale=en
By 1851 census – the father George has died; possibly also the oldest boy named George
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026784e9379091b1cd5d2b/jane-cowie-1851-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1811-?locale=en
2) Queen street - George Cowie (4) and William Cowie (1) with assumed parents William Cowie (30) and Margaret Martin (married 1835 Peterhead)
I DO THINK THIS IS CORRECT FOR YOUR FAMILY
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a1402e8f4040b9d6ee73087/george-cowie-1841-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1837-?locale=en
I have to wonder if the fathers of the above 2 families were brothers – possibly the sons of this William below ……….
William Cowie (born abt 1781 Aberdour) living Ugie St and later Windmill St in Peterhead
Note occupation is Sawyer (same as Alexander records on his marriage)
1841
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a1402ebf4040b9d6ee73630/william-cowie-1841-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1786-?locale=en
The son Thomas married in 1849 to Elizabeth Murrison – they eventually went to Australia
The wife was Catherine THOM - died 11 March 1846 in St Fergus (age 66)
1851
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5902673fe9379091b1cc3e67/william-cowie-1851-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1781-?locale=en
IS this the same man? Age is a bit out.
Register of poor persons 1861 Peterhead
William Cowie – 9 Ugie St, widower, age 88, born Garnsten?
Removed to poor house 1854, died Sept 1864
He is in the 1861 Peterhead census under initials W. C. in poor house in Ugie st.
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William Cowie – 9 Ugie St, widower, age 88, born Garnsten?
I wonder in Garnsten is someone mishearing Gardenstown? Parish of Gamrie, County of Banff.
William Cowie, 93, mother's maiden surname Gordon, died in Peterhead in 1864. His death certificate will tell you the names of his wif/ves and parents.
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Thanks for all the work and prompting.
Positive result from George’s marriage certificate. Parents William Cowie and Margaret Martin, so definitely the brother of my Alexander. The marriage is in Fetterangus so is it safe to presume that this is the George who is with Isabella Brown with his brother William in 1851? Where then is Alexander (Ugie Street with the duplicate William?) Can I presume then that the birth of William Cowie to Andrew Cowie and Isabella Brown is their father. The OPR confirms Andrew (Mains of Pitfour) and Isabella (Toux) are both unmarried, witnesses Samuel and William Brown of Toux. (I have seen this certificate before but it is not on my saved searches for some reason)
The sibling William is very elusive can’t find anything about him until there is a death at sea in 1890. My Alexander was also a merchant seaman so there is a good chance this is him.
If William is illegitimate I don’t think the family on Kirk Street are William’s brother I wondered that as well but there are so many Williams, George’s and Alexander’s it might be a coincidence.
I will see if I can find out anything about Andrew.
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Might be more coincidences Neal mentioned Catherine Thom is one of the witnesses at George’s wedding Thom. also he mentioned Morrison. There is a Murrison Cowie born in 1853 son of George Cowie and Isabella Clark.
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What information from the death certificate of Isabella Brown?
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Old Deer Minutes
11 March 1810 – mention of Isa Brown pregnant with child of Andrew Cowie
(Cowie says he is not responsible)
Image 71
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/virtual-volumes/volume-images/volume_data-CH2-1217-2/GAZ00894?image_number=71#image_position
19 Aug 1810
Isa Brown has had child and now Andrew Cowie has acknowledged himself as father and paid the penalty.
Image 73
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/virtual-volumes/volume-images/volume_data-CH2-1217-2/GAZ00894?image_number=73#image_position
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Andrew Cowie married Ann Cumine 27 Dec 1811 – Old Deer / New Deer
1841 census
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a14010cf4040b9d6ee515f8/andrew-cowie-1841-aberdeenshire-strichen-1791-?locale=en
1851 census
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5e999843f4040bc9a3d66354/andrew-cowie-1851-aberdeenshire-strichen-1786-?locale=en
1861 census
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/590269e7e9379091b1d724cc/andrew-cowie-1861-aberdeenshire-strichen-1786-?locale=en
1871 census
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/64564829f493fd2a9a82ba94/andrew-cowie-1871-aberdeenshire-strichen-1786-?locale=en
Andrew Cowie death 1874 Strichen, age 87. Mother - Paterson
There is a marriage in Old Deer in 1784 between Andrew Cowie and Agnes Paterson
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Thanks Neale I was just about to post Andrew’s info he didn’t waste much time after his illegitimate son being born for him to marry Ann. There seems to be two OPR entries for this marriage is that because Ann and Andrew where from different parishes?
Just noticed the informant is a son in law.
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There seems to be two OPR entries for this marriage is that because Ann and Andrew where from different parishes?
The marriage banns were read in both parishes, and recorded in each parish. It is just 1 marriage though. I assume the bride was from New Deer, because Andrew seems to have been from Old Deer.
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Possible daughter.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5902663fe9379091b1c827ca/peter-williamson-1851-aberdeenshire-lonmay-1824-?locale=en
Seems to be Peter Williamson and Margaret Alexander.
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Doesn’t add any more information.
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Informant for Isabella Browns death is Peter Williamson ("son-in-law")
1861 census Fetterangus
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026ae5e9379091b1db433a/peter-williamson-1861-aberdeenshire-old-deer-1826-?locale=en
wife is Margaret ALEXANDER born Old Deer abt 1830
marriage for them in 1849 Old Deer / Lonmay
1851 census they are in Lonmay
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5902663fe9379091b1c827ca/peter-williamson-1851-aberdeenshire-lonmay-1824-?locale=en
Are we thinking that Margaret Alexander is another illegitimate child for Isabel Brown?
Margaret in 1871 in Fetterangus.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026e9ce9379091b1eaaaa3/margret-williamson-1871-aberdeenshire-old-deer-1831-?locale=en
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I think it is looking that way. Thanks for your help.
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YES
Margaret Alexander is another illegitimate child for Isabel Brown.
Old Deer Kirk Sessions
9 May 1830
Isabel Brown (unmarried) had a child, and accused John Alexander (now married)
Image 185
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/virtual-volumes/volume-images/volume_data-CH2-1217-2/GAZ00894?image_number=185#image_position
a little further down on same page …..
John Alexander appeared at the sessions and was interrogated and replied in the negative.
Isabel still adhered to her accusation of him as the father, but he refused all communication with her.
Margaret Alexander in 1841 census
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a140293f4040b9d6ee6c35f/margaret-alexander-1841-aberdeenshire-old-deer-1831-?locale=en
Looks like John Alexander had married Isabel Ritchie in Jan 1830, and they had had a child named George in March 1830. (So John had 2 women pregnant at the same time, and he married 1 of them.)
George Alexander and his brother are with their grandparents in 1841.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a140107f4040b9d6ee50d62/george-alexander-1841-aberdeenshire-strichen-1830-?locale=en
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As far as I can see Andrew COWIE and Ann CUMINE (CUMMING) only had a daughter named Mary who was born abt 1814, never married, and died in 1902 in Strichen (age 89)
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Isabel Brown’s parents - Samuel Brown and Elspeth Dickie
Don’t see a marriage
There are these children baptisms:-
• William Brown bapt 1778 Old Deer
• William Brown bapt 1780 Longside
• John Brown bapt 1783 Longside
On the baptism for William Cowie in 1810 the witnesses are Samuel Brown and William Brown (assuming they are Isabel’s father Samuel, and her older brother William)
The brother William Brown in
1841
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a13ff37f4040b9d6ee2e266/wm-brown-1841-aberdeenshire-longside-1781-?locale=en
1851
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026636e9379091b1c804a9/william-brown-1851-aberdeenshire-longside-1781-?locale=en
The other brother John Brown
1841
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a13ff37f4040b9d6ee2e258/john-brown-1841-aberdeenshire-longside-1786-?locale=en
1851
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026636e9379091b1c80386/john-brown-1851-aberdeenshire-longside-1783-?locale=en
ADDED
Elspeth Dickie wife of Samuel Brown burial 15 Jan 1834 Longside (age 84)
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William COWIE married Jean BRUCE
Marriage 9 July 1861 in Peterhead
William Cowie, bachelor, seaman, age 20, address Ugie St.
Father - William Cowie (dead); mother Margaret Martin (dead)
William COWIE
Born 1839 Peterhead
1871 London – 2nd mate certificate
1871 census
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026eabe9379091b1eae9a5/ann-cowie-1871-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1861-?locale=en
Poor Board application March 1874
Jane Bruce / Jane Cowie born 25 April 1843
Address - 2 Crooked Lane Peterhead
Seaman’s widow and 4 dependent children
Children – Ann 30/9/1861, William 6/6/1867, Magdalena 27/6/1869, Jemima 18/12/1872
William Cowie seaman drowned off “Industry” 1 Jany 1872
1881 census
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/image-viewer/census_lds/census_lds-200247a8-ea6f-4ce4-8e88-80eec861ea0e?search_token=71400215567b7b93001f65&row=row_1&sort=&order=&from_page=
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Thanks again, this has cleared a lot up. The 1851 census is still a bit of a mystery, with the whereabouts of Alexander but at least we have confirmed George, William and Alexander are brothers and survived childhood, went on to marry and had families.
We have not confirmed William’s parents are Andrew and Isobel Brown but it does look that way.
I had found the death of William Cowie, Sailmaker, at sea in 1890 but suspected this was George and Jane’s son as George was a a Sailmaker on the 1841 census, I think you have confirmed this.
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I just noticed you say William died in January 1872 however Jemima was born in December 1872.
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I just noticed you say William died in January 1872 however Jemima was born in December 1872.
That is the information on the Poor Law Application. I don't know how accurate their details are. You would need to look at Jemima's birth certificate to be sure of her birth date. (FamilySearch has her birth month as November)
You might find mention of drowning off the ship "Industry" in the newspaper to pin down an exact date.
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William received his seaman's 2nd mates certificate on 20 Sept 1871 - so we assume, he was still alive then.
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The 1851 census is still a bit of a mystery, with the whereabouts of Alexander.
He is in Ugie street poor house
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026740e9379091b1cc41e9/alexander-cowie-1851-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1843-?locale=en
We have not confirmed William’s parents are Andrew and Isobel Brown but it does look that way.
Surely his baptism record confirms that. You also have minutes from the Kirk Sessions.
DNA would be the only other possible confirmation.
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Ok, I found William's register of death at sea - in Dec 1873.
So quite a few discrepancies across various records
Also On scotlands People
COWIE, WILLIAM
age 23 (obvioulsy not correct)
M
1873
018 / MR / 186 Marine Register
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I presume Alexander is the one in the poor house however with the age being a bit out and him not being with his brothers there was just a bit of uncertainty. Not important.
Does it not say 32 for Williams death in 1877?
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I presume Alexander is the one in the poor house however with the age being a bit out and him not being with his brothers there was just a bit of uncertainty. Not important.
Alex is with his brother William in the poor house.
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Does it not say 32 for Williams death in 1877?
The register says he drowned in the Baltic Sea on 31 December 1873, at age 32, from the ship “Industry”.
His death was reported when the ship returned to port on 4 March 1874.
This coincides with his wife applying for poor relief a week later on 10 March 1874.
Even if one could swim, I don’t think you would last for long if you fell into the Baltic Sea in December.
I wonder if William had been celebrating the new year rather too enthusiastically. ;)
The poor law application may say he drowned on 1 Jany 1874 (which would make sense), but it looks like 1872 to my eyes - so perhaps a clerical error.
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Thanks for clearing it up.