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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: mookp1892 on Sunday 16 February 25 21:49 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I am trying to find more about the origins of my 13th great grandmother Margaret Legh. She was born mid 1580s possibly in Cheshire and married about 1602 to John Starkie (1584-1665) of Padiham in Lancashire.
In all sources I have found (apart from one) she is only mentioned as the daughter of a Thomas Legh of Adlington, and no other information is given. One source records her parents as Thomas Legh and Mary Grosvenor but this must be wrong as they would have been elderly when Margaret was born in the 1580s.
One source I haven't seen is the 1663 Cheshire Visitation but I am struggling to find it anywhere. I am wondering if Margaret might have been recorded on a Legh pedigree from the visitation.
If anyone has any information about Margaret or can send me in the right direction I would be very grateful. Thanks very much.
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I found this from the 1613 visitation which I must have downloaded some time ago.
It might be of interest.
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Still doesn't look as though you can see the 1663 visitation on line.
This site has all the coats of arms prettilly coloured in!
http://cheshire-heraldry.org.uk/visitations1663/
Added:
It seems to be on microfilm on familysearch.org here:
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/423599
I can't look at the film as the site keeps telling me 'Oops something went wrong!'
You can find it by going to 'catalog' and putting '1663 cheshire' under 'Title'.
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Hi
I have a brochure/booklet from Adlington Hall which is the home of the Leghs of Adlington, which shows the male line and their wife's (but unfortunately not all of the individual children)
You could perhaps contact the Hall 01625 829206 to see if they have any knowledge of Margaret Legh. I don't think it is open to visitors any longer as I believe the family have recently left and it was being sold. However I think a caretaker may still be in place there.
There are numerous Thomas Legh's dates as follows -
1452-1519 - Wife Catherine (daughter of Sir John Savage)
1527-1548 - Wife Maria (daughter of Richard Grosvenor)
1547- 1601 - Wife Sibilia (daughter of Sir Urian Brereton)
1593-1644 - Wife Ann (daughter and co-heiress of John Gobarte)
1614- 1687 - Wife Mary (daughter of Thomas Bolles)
1644- 1691 - Wife Joanna (daughter and heiress of Sir John Maynard)
The brochure/booklet lists the tree starting with Robert De Legh (1308-1370) whose wife was Sybil daughter of Henry De Honford. He had a second wife Matilda who was the daughter and heiress of Sir Adam Norley.
However the history of the owners of the Hall goes back to Saxon times when Earl Edwin built a Hunting Lodge there. It became the ancestral home of the ancient and noble family of Legh, when the daughter of Hugh De Corona, Lucy had one son Thomas, who died childless, and two daughters Ellen and Isabel. Ellen married John De Legh of Booth and during the reign of Edward II, Thomas granted Adlington Hall to John and Ellen for life.
There are 14 generation between 1308 and 1644 - 6 x Robert's; 6 Thomas's; 1x George; 1x Uriah, and a further 13 generations post 1644.
Hopefully this gives some insight into the family history.
Alan
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Hi,
Reading through the brochure/booklet it mentions the building of a quadrangle protected by a porch from the Great Hall, featuring an oak beam with the following inscription -
Thomas Leyghe Esquyer, who married Sybbel daughter to Sir Urian Brereton of Handforde, Knighte and by her had foure sonnes and fyve daughters made this buyldinge in the yeare of 6 lorde god 1581. And in the reigne of our Sovyraigne Queen Elizabeth the XX111rd
Could one of the 5 daughters be the Margaret you are looking for?
Alan
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There is a pedigree in Ormerod's History of Cheshire, Thomas Helsby edidion 1882, Vol 3 pp333-334, which you may not have seen.
https://archive.org/details/historyofcountyp03orme/page/332/mode/2up?view=theater
Ray
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Thomas Legh and Sybil had a daughter Margaret born 1582 but according to sources she only married Henry Arderne and William Davenport. Her portrait with one of her husbands is or was kept at Bramall Hall and I think she is quite well documented. Margaret Davenport died in 1653 and Margaret Starkie died in 1644.
Burial: 22 Dec 1644 St Leonard, Padiham, Lancashire
Margareta Starkie - uxor Johannis Starkie
Abode: de Huntroyde
Occupation: Armiger
Register: Burials 1573 - 1653, Page 226
Source: Original Parish Register
I came across the 1639 will of Dorothy Egerton, the daughter of Mary Grosvenor and her second husband Richard Egerton. She names as her godson John Starkie, Margaret [Legh] his wife and their son Nicholas Starkie. There must be some connection there, whether it be on Thomas Legh or Piers/Peter Leghs side of the family.
Piers/Peter had a brother called Thomas Legh who seemingly fits as Margaret Starkie's father but he appears to have died without issue and left a will which I'm assuming doesn't mention any children.
Thanks very much. Something is bound to turn up!
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Hi,
I am beginning to think that with reference to Piers (or Peter Legh) that this branch of the Legh family was not the Adlington Legh's but the Lyme Legh's.
Various Sir Piers Legh are associated with what is now Lyme Hall (in Lyme Park, Disley, Stockport and from your timescale maybe you should be looking at Sir Piers Legh (1563-1636) who was an MP for Wigan, knighted at Greenwich in 1598. His father Piers died in 1570, and a son Peter (1588-1624) lived at Bradley Hall near Standish Wigan.
Another option is Sir Piers Legh who built Lyme Hall who died 6 Dec 1589, knighted in 1544 and was the High Sheriff of Lancashire in 1550, but may be a little early to fit with your time frame. The family wealth came from Coal Mining.
Lyme Park is now run by the National Trust - the location was used for the film Pride and Prejudice.
Lots there to investigate if it is of interest.
Alan
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You mention a marriage c1602, where did it take place
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The 1602 reference possibly comes from this pedigree https://archive.org/details/cu31924024699286/page/n433/mode/2up
Its in The History of the County Palatine and Duchy of Lancaster, Volume III, Baines and Croston, c1890.
Ray
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I wonder if her father wasn't Thomas Legh but a different Legh altogether. Maybe they attached Margaret to the most well known Legh of that time period, Thomas Legh of Adlington Hall.
There are several sources mentioning the 1602 marriage covenant of John Starkie and Margaret Legh. Unfortunately no place is given. I don't know where the primary source for the covenant would be.
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So after a lot of digging it turns out Margaret was the daughter of Thomas Legh of Alkrington (son of Piers and Margaret Legh of Lyme) and his wife Katherine.
Thomas's 1597 will names 7 'reputed' children (including Margaret Legh) and that it was his will and intent that his wife Katherine had 'education, rule, order, government and disposition' of his 3 reputed daughters and 3 reputed sons, the eldest already being an adult with his own children.
Katherine's 1620 will names them all as her sons and daughters and she mentions 'my daughter Starkie' and 'sonne in lawe John Starkie' as her 'true and lawfull executor of this my last will and testamt'.
So it appears that the children were illegitimate even though sources say Thomas and Katherine married in the early 1560s, with Margaret being born in the mid-late 1580s. For some reason their marriage must have been invalid, rather than Thomas having had 7 children with a different woman than his wife Katherine.
Thomas and Katherine appear to share the same great-grandparents Edmund Trafford and Margaret Savage, making them second cousins. I wonder if this was reason for making issue illegitimate? I remember seeing a while ago a couple divorced in the late 14th century because they were related in the 'fourth degree', both descending from the same great-great-grandparents. Maybe somebody can shed some light on this?