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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Resources => Topic started by: Quido on Sunday 16 February 25 14:52 GMT (UK)

Title: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Sunday 16 February 25 14:52 GMT (UK)
Alfred’s daughter Florence Beatrice Owen b London 1864. Wife Anne Jane Owen b London .
Together with daughter Florence. Alfred listed as a widower 1871c. Dalwood Devon.  Occupation.Reviewer. Essayist & Landowner. Aged 56 b Liverpool. Florence b London.

Death Cert for Anne. Died from Influenza & Typhus Sept 30th 1869 Dalwood aged 25. Listed as the wife of Alfred Amersham Owen. Informant. Sarah Newton. Don’t know who she is.

1881c Florence is a boarding scholar at Collingwood College, Lee Lewisham. Later to become Lee High School.
Florence Beatrice emigrated alone to Queensland 1884 and her life after that is documented.
We can find nothing on Alfred before or after 1871.

In 1875 the property Danes Villa, Dalwood but listed as Dalwood Chase in 1871 is one of three lots up for Auction mostly in the name of Alfred Amersham Owen. A substantial house with four acres of land.
We suspect Alfred and Anne weren’t married. Possibly Alfred had two families and Owen may not have been his given name. But he was a man of some wealth. And I’m stuck.
All help and suggestions greatly,appreciated.

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Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: JenB on Sunday 16 February 25 15:08 GMT (UK)
In the newspaper announcement of Ann's death her husbands name is given as Amherst Owen.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: amondg on Sunday 16 February 25 15:42 GMT (UK)
Can the Devon Archives help you follow the deed transfers, since you know the date of the auction.

The newspaper say late in the occupation of, it doesn't necessarily means that he owned the property
he could have rented it.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Sunday 16 February 25 15:44 GMT (UK)
Thank you Jen . . .I haven’t come across that account.
I have  access to BNA which paper was it in?
Have you any other ideas or suggestions?
All greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Sunday 16 February 25 15:46 GMT (UK)
Good point regarding renting or owning I’ll check it through.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: amondg on Sunday 16 February 25 15:46 GMT (UK)
The newspaper was The Western Times dated 1 October 1869.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: JenB on Sunday 16 February 25 15:49 GMT (UK)
Thank you Jen . . .I haven’t come across that account.
I have  access to BNA which paper was it in?

The Devon Weekly Times 1st October 1869.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: amondg on Sunday 16 February 25 15:50 GMT (UK)
The GRO Index has
Florence Owen reg. 1864 Poplar no mother's maiden name listed - Illegitimate
September quarter, Vol. 01C page 650

A copy will give the address where she was born. £3. for a digital image.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 16 February 25 16:34 GMT (UK)
The GRO Index has
Florence Owen reg. 1864 Poplar no mother's maiden name listed - Illegitimate
September quarter, Vol. 01C page 650

A copy will give the address where she was born. £3. for a digital image.

Is this her death 
Deaths Dec 1868   
OWEN    Florence    4    Poplar    1c   502    
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Sunday 16 February 25 17:04 GMT (UK)
I have her death certificate. She died in Dalwood.
I think the digitalised copies of birth are £8.
Thank you for all of this. Nothing is wasted and I am grateful.

It is quite possible that Alfred used Anne’s name as a pseudonym to hide his identity. There was a 30 year age gap and he had money. . , I'd love to know who he was.
 
Is there any website I can access to pursue his listed occupations of Essayist & Landowner ?

I’ll follow up the Devon Archives suggestion and see where it leads.
Thank,You.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 16 February 25 17:09 GMT (UK)
There are 2 types of cheaper birth and death certificates available for some years,  Digital costs £3,  PDF costs £8.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 16 February 25 17:11 GMT (UK)
Presumably you don't have a birth certificate or baptism record for Florence Beatrice  :-\
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: JenB on Sunday 16 February 25 17:13 GMT (UK)
Alfred’s daughter Florence Beatrice Owen b London 1864.

I can't see a birth of a Florence Beatrice Owen in 1864. Apart from the census what is your source for this?

There is the birth of a Florence Owen in Poplar in 1864 (reply #7), but as Rosie has pointed out, it seems likely that she died in 1868.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Sunday 16 February 25 17:46 GMT (UK)
Only the 1871 & 81 census. And descending family assumptions.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 16 February 25 18:42 GMT (UK)
No help but - Perhaps this is when he acquired the lease (1865)

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/7349a4ea-9ccf-4ca1-a915-bd419ae62092


Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Sunday 16 February 25 18:51 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for the link. . . who knows where it might lead
Warm Regards
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Monday 17 February 25 09:46 GMT (UK)
Thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions.
Every day’s a schoolday? . I now know that you  can get a digital copy from GRO for £3. So thank you for that.

I think I’ve gone as far as I can with the mysterious Alfred Amersham Owen.
There’s definitely a story there. But possibly may never be shared.
Warm Regards to Everyone.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 17 February 25 09:53 GMT (UK)
I’ve been looking at all the Florence Beatrice Xxxxx. Born mid 1863 to mid 1865 in London or Middlesex

Can anyone see what happened to Florence Beatrice MEEK

MEEK, FLORENCE  BEATRICE     - 
GRO Reference: 1864  M Quarter in ST LUKE CHELSEA  Volume 01A  Page 213

Reg has no mothers maiden name
But there is a baptism, father James a printer and Mother is Jane.

I can’t find any of them after that baptism
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Dundee on Monday 17 February 25 12:07 GMT (UK)
When Florence died the informant gave her parents' names as Florence VERNON and Alfred AMHURST.

What names did she give for them when she married?

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: softly softly on Monday 17 February 25 15:41 GMT (UK)
Word of warning--1881 census for Florence records a pob as Devonshire.

SS
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: LizzieL on Monday 17 February 25 16:46 GMT (UK)
How do you know Florence's mother Anne Jane was born in London?
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 17 February 25 17:02 GMT (UK)
Quote
In the newspaper announcement of Ann's death her husbands name is given as Amherst Owen.

The name is Alfred Amherst Owen in the 1875 property sale announcement:

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/793cd64f-d7a7-4d1e-b103-a1a4e503ac97
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: jonwarrn on Monday 17 February 25 17:21 GMT (UK)
MEEK, FLORENCE  BEATRICE     - 
GRO Reference: 1864  M Quarter in ST LUKE CHELSEA  Volume 01A  Page 213

Reg has no mothers maiden name
But there is a baptism, father James a printer and Mother is Jane.

There's a date of birth on that baptism, 17 January 1864.
Not sure about the abode, 3 Grove (possibly!) Place.

Just in case :-\
A birth registration of an Ann Jane Meek, Dec 1844, Ledbury. Mother Harrison.
Baptised as Jane Ann at Coddington, Herefordshire, 28 November 1844.
Parents Edward and Elizabeth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JW2N-H3X

She is with her family in Coddington in 1851 and 1861 as Ann / Anne Jane Meek, age 6 and 16.
Edward Meek a Farmer.

She may be on the missing list after 1861.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Monday 17 February 25 18:59 GMT (UK)
Thanks to Everyone for responding.

I haven’t had sight of the marriage record so cannot be certain of names submitted. And the names submitted on her death certificate I think were assumptions made by Florence based on hazy knowledge of her early life.  She was five when her mother died. Had an elderly father who seemed to live in the shadows. In 1871 she had a nursery governess and as yet we  do not know when she was enrolled at Collingwood College. We assume by her father.
I am certain of the 1871 & 81 census. And her mothers death certificate.
1871 lists POB as London. The 1881 would be completed by the school and another assumption made when they listed Devonshire.
She emigrated in 1884.
The records from Collingwood would be helpful but are not online with the system of storing changing in 1889.
I don’t know for certain that Alfred Amherst Owen was her sponsor at Collingwood But I assume so . . .another assumption!
It was a college with emphasis on music. A gift she took to Australia.

Alfred is such a mysterious figure. If he was hiding something why list his occupations as Reviewer Essayist & Landowner. He could have said Gentleman as listed on Anne Jane’s death certificate .
Apologies for not explaining this very well.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 18 February 25 10:02 GMT (UK)
As a landowner Alfred Amhurst Owen might have left a will?  Not that I can find any combination of names in the probate record. Perhaps someone else better at searching can find his death and a will?  Did his death prompt Florence to emigrate?
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Tuesday 18 February 25 11:01 GMT (UK)
That would have been my guess if he paid the bills  at Collingwood.
I’ve done the same searches and suspect that Owen might not have been his given name.
He may even have had two families . . .pure speculation.
The Reviewer Essayist Landowner occupations in 1871 was intriguing. But hasn’t got me anywhere.
I’m going to have another search through deaths and probate ending in 1884
Thank you for searching . Greatly appreciated
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 18 February 25 11:48 GMT (UK)
Alfred’s daughter Florence Beatrice Owen b London 1864. Wife Anne Jane Owen b London .

Just repeating Lizzie's question

How do you know Florence's mother Anne Jane was born in London?

Anne Jane doesn't appear on the 1871 census (having died, as you say, in 1869). What is the source of the information that she was born in London? (apologies if I have missed this)
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 18 February 25 11:59 GMT (UK)
I doubt if he owned Dane's Villa, it appears a few times in local papers
March 1862  Advertised for rent at £20 pa
February 1865 it was advertised for rent at £25 pa from Lady day - present tenant: Captain Goodridge
26 Sept 1865 "Wanted by lady, board and lodging in a quiet family. One room required £10 pa given, Apply JT, Dane's Villa Dalwood
24 October 1865 Sale by auction of household effects, 2 mares and a Guernsey cow, dog cart, harness etc. The furniture is described as superior and bought new within the last six months
27 October 1865 advertised for rent with immediate possession £25 pa
May 1875, sale by auction of the villa and cottages as separate lots ( mentioned earlier). One sale notice says that an annuity of £3 per year is payable out of the sale of the villa to a lady aged 64
 
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Tuesday 18 February 25 12:16 GMT (UK)
Don’t know for certain. Information passed from family. Probably another assumption based on POB listed for Florence.
Her mother 25 when she died .. .so 19/20 when Florence was born listed as London
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Tuesday 18 February 25 12:26 GMT (UK)
Thanks Lizzie for the info on Danes Villa.
My feeling is that the 1875 Auction indicates the date that Florence was enrolled in Collingwood and the house no longer needed. Florence 10/11.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: MarysInMyTree on Tuesday 18 February 25 12:28 GMT (UK)
Is this Florence in 1887 - naming her son after her father Alfred Amhurst Owen?

https://www.familyhistory.bdm.qld.gov.au/details/50fc19aca318c12c0053cf3a2bfe16695f78f0deddb1cf54b3dbac3705432819

Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 18 February 25 12:34 GMT (UK)
The Reviewer Essayist Landowner occupations in 1871 was intriguing. But hasn’t got me anywhere.
Is that what it says though? The thick ink makes it hard to read although I can see landowner and maybe essayist if I squint a bit. Have you posted it on the handwriting section for a few opinions? Although if he was a wealthy landowner he might have just added a few hobbies rather than paid occupations?
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 18 February 25 12:41 GMT (UK)
Thanks Lizzie for the info on Danes Villa.
My feeling is that the 1875 Auction indicates the date that Florence was enrolled in Collingwood and the house no longer needed. Florence 10/11.

Did Alfred actually own the house? Before 1875 there were only adverts for its rental. I am wondering whether the owner died in 1875 and the executors put it up for sale, that may tie in in with the clause about an annuity for an elderly lady.
Florence went to Australia on her own, but could she have been joining Alfred who had emigrated earlier?
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Tuesday 18 February 25 12:50 GMT (UK)
Florence named her son after the names she’d been given. She was raised as an Owen. Knew her father to be Alfred (Amherst. Various spellings) Owen.
The school would have reinforced the little knowledge she had from her enrolment. But who was he? Nothing before or after the 1871.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: jonwarrn on Tuesday 18 February 25 12:51 GMT (UK)
If he was a wealthy landowner he would be in Return of Owners of Land, 1873.

Is that what it says though? The thick ink makes it hard to read although I can see landowner and maybe essayist if I squint a bit.

I can get Reviewer, I guess, but not sure about Essayist :-\
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 18 February 25 12:51 GMT (UK)
Quote
Did Alfred actually own the house?

No he didn't. Per the ad, it was "late in the occupation of Alfred Amherst Owen". So he was a tenant or leaseholder. Most likely subleasing the stone cottage and receiving rent from that.

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/793cd64f-d7a7-4d1e-b103-a1a4e503ac97
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 18 February 25 13:39 GMT (UK)

Is that what it says though? The thick ink makes it hard to read although I can see landowner and maybe essayist if I squint a bit.

I can get Reviewer, I guess, but not sure about Essayist :-\

I have no idea how anyone arrived at their names either  ;D

And I only see Reviewer because I can’t think what else it would be. Reviewed what,how,where? Would his name come up as the columnist in a newspaper or journal? He hasn’t popped up in my newspaper searches (BNA).
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 18 February 25 13:44 GMT (UK)
Quote
I can get Reviewer, I guess, but not sure about Essayist

I’m not sure what it is, but it’s not Essayist. I think what you are reading as an ‘E’ is actually an ampersand.

So it’s (possibly) ‘reviewer & (something) Landowner’
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 18 February 25 13:50 GMT (UK)
If it begins with P, plagiarist came to mind but doubt anyone would admit to that  ;D

Payist???

Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Tuesday 18 February 25 14:12 GMT (UK)
Agree with all your concerns. I am passing on what I have been given to understand is the best interpretation. Reviewers and Essayists were a ‘thing’ late 19th century. Perhaps he filled his time writing to newspapers. But can find nothing under the name I have.
Someone already suggested that being wealthy he’s listed hobbies as opposed to occupations.
It just seemed an odd thing to do when he could have listed Gentleman as Anne is listed on her death certificate as ‘wife of Amherst Alfred Owen Gentleman’.
He is a puzzle
Many thanks to all of you
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Sc00p on Tuesday 18 February 25 14:32 GMT (UK)
Potential lead given his date of residence at Danes Villa, his landowning occupation and the location.  That would be a tidy income taking the rent at Danes Villa into account.
The Times p14 17 Nov 1865
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Tuesday 18 February 25 14:39 GMT (UK)
  Never seen that. Thank you so much . Where do I go now ?
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 18 February 25 16:52 GMT (UK)
I have a great uncle in my tree who disappeared from UK records. Turned out he went to NZ alone, as a youngster, after a confusing early life being cared for by various relatives.  His anecdotes resulted in scrambled recorded info.  The first name he gave for his father was actually his brother's.  The first name for his mother was his aunt's (who in fact also had a different surname to his).  So his descendants in NZ could not follow his backstory to trace anyone in England. Then DNA came along, and finally it became clear who he was connected to.
Title: Re: Alfred Amersham Owen. Finding a Ghost
Post by: Quido on Tuesday 18 February 25 18:27 GMT (UK)
Goodness Gracious!  Perhaps some people are not meant to be found.