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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: shawnfbrown on Thursday 13 February 25 18:56 GMT (UK)
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Rachel Thomas married John Hughes, 22 Nov 1854, Parish Church Llangynwyd, County Glamorgan. Rachel residence Craig y Bedw Cottages, Llani Higher. Father listed John Thomas, laborer. John Thomas was witness, so alive in 1854. Banns stated both Rachel and John were of the parish. 1871 Census for Rachel (Thomas) Hughes listed birthplace Llangyfelach, age 36, so DOB approx. 1835. I've tried Findmypast.uk for census 1851 Glamorgan for John Thomas on premise that 1854 marriage was located in parish of bride, and maybe father John Thomas lived in Glamorgan 1851. some results showed John Thomas as tinman, smith, collier and no Rachel of correct age in household. I found a Rachel Thomas as servant with probable sister Elizabeth age 14 in 1851 census Llangyfelach in household Daniel Wiliams. Tried tracing Rachel's birth 1835 +/- on findmypast, but data starts 1837. any help or advice welcome.
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There's a possible in Llangyfelach in 1841 [spelled Llangafelach on Ancestry]. Address might be Pen yr Erw Vawr
Piece 1419, folio 17, p4
John Thomas 30 Ag lab
Hanna Thomas 35
Mary Thomas 9
Rachel Thomas 5
Susanah Thomas 1
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1851 - Ty Mawr, Llangyfelach
Piece 2465, folio 71, p3
John Thomas 57 labourer b Llangyfelach
Hannah Thomas 50 b Bettws, Carm.
Susanah Thomas 11 b Llangyfelach
Richard Found 7 Foster Son b Oystermouth
Susannah Thomas, Minor
Father John Thomas, labourer
Address: Llan: higher. Mitcalfe St (?)
Thomas Beynon, full age, miner
Father David Beynon, farmer
Nant-fyllon Cottages
Marriage Date 6 Nov 1858 Llangynwyd
They're in Llangynwyd in 1861 - Susannah b Llangyfelach. 1871 - moved to Aberdare
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1861 - Llangynywd
Piece 4082, folio 39, p35
John Thomas 68 general labourer b Llanguick
Hannah Thomas 60 b Bettws, Carm
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thank you Mabel.
The marriage of Susannah Thomas 1858 looks interesting. Rachel Thomas' marriage 1854 listed her residence as Craig y bedw Cottages in Llani Higher. The marriage info you have lists a similar residnece for Susannah--Llani Higher, same occupation for father John Thomas as laborer. Do you have any more details on that record by any chance that I could use to order from GRO?
If 1861 census for parents John Thomas and wife Hanna are correct, do you have suggestion to research death of those parents?
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It's Llan : higher not Llani (llan basically means parish in welsh) - i.e. the residence is in the top end of the parish
The image of Susannah's marriage reg is on Ancestry - I've given you all the details earlier, except the witnesses Thomas Griffiths and Thomas Morris
Hannah is a widow in 1871 living in Dyffryn Cottages Llangynwyd Higher. By 1881 she's moved over to Pontrhydyfen
there's a possible burial for Hannah
Hannah Thomas
Age 95
Burial 15 Dec 1894 Llangynwyd,
Address 125 Ystrad Road, Ystradyfodwg
Can't obvoiusly see her on 1891
Now have confirmation it's her - given her great age there's a newspaper report (in Welsh)
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3117396/3117400/72/hannah%2BOR%2Bthomas
DEATH OF AN OLD WELSH WOMAN
It is our role to record the death of Hannah Thomas, aged 95. She died in the home of her daughter Mrs Rachel Davies, 125, Ystrad Road, and her husband Benjamin Davies, on the evening of Wednesday 12th. Another daughter is Mrs Anne Williams, wife of Thomas Williams, Clydach, Swansea, aged 71 and another child is Mrs Hannah Jones, wife of David Jones, Pontyberem. The departed was married to the late John Thomas, Carmarthenshire. he was buried in Llangynwyd Church near Maesteg 26 years ago. The old lady wished to be buried in the same grave as him, which took place last Saturday. A service was held before leaving the house by Rev D. C. Owen. She joined the Independents in her early years and she kept her faith uninterrupted to her grave
Rachel Hughes nee Thomas appears to have remarried - she's on later censuses in Ystrad with Benjamin, and both Hughes and Davies children (right age, and from Llangyfelach)
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Your newspaper article find is fantastic! Yes I have already confirmed Rachel had remarried. She and her second husband were buried in the same plot as her first husband. You have really helped me along. Thank you.
I’ll read through it all more closely later and reply if I need more help.
Shawn
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i checked 1891 census for Rachel Davies and husband Benjamin, but no Hannah Thomas living with them.
The newspaper article tells us about another daughter Anne, age 71, so birth 1823. She would have been 18 at 1841 census, so out of house, maybe married to Thomas Williams.
Also, article says Hrs. Hannah Jones has another daughter, wife of David Jones. If marriage you located earlier for Hannah Thomas, which appeared to be correct for this family, perhaps Hannah's first husband Thomas Benyon, miner, died and she remarried.
The death date for John Thomas 26 years ago and his burial place is helpful.
Do you have a suggestion on locating parish records for burial for John Thomas at Llangynwyd Church?
Do you have a suggestion on how to research the chapel Hannah Thomas may have belonged to in Ystradyfodwg? Maybe via Rev. D C Owen...
Thanks again-- i was starting to give up hope on extending this line of the family.
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It was Susannah Thomas who married Thomas Beynon. She seems to have died in 1880, in Aberdare
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This is a possible for Ann in 1891, in Aberclydach
Thomas William 69, roof thatcher, b Llanon, Carms
Anne William 69 b LLangyfelach
Piece 4469, folio 73, p14
They're sometimes called William rather than Williams. I have them together from 1851 to 1901
She's still alive in 1911, aged 90, living with her daughter in Neatah. Runs in the family!
Anne Thomas, full age
Father John Thomas, labourer
Residence Coedcae'r Gros
Thomas Williams, full age Farm Servant
Father Henry Williams, labourer
Residence Penfidin (?)
Marriage 2 Aug 1845 Llangyfelach
First Witness David Morris
Second Witness John Rees
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A possible for Hannah? This is 1871 - Dyffryn Cottages, Llangynywyd Higher. Hannah Thomas is on the next page
David Jones 44 b Llanedi Collier
Hannah Jones 48 b Llangyfelach
John Jones 19
Daniel Jones 16
Gwilym Jones 14
Llewellyn Jones 2
David Jones 6
1881 they're in Michaelstone Lower (Cwmavon) and 1891 Pontrhydyfen
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think I have John Thomas's burial - 28 Jan 1870, although not quite 26 years previous, and the age is out as it says 78 (ie b c1792). The address however is Dyffryn Cottages, Coegnan,t which fits 1871 very nicely
The burial register is on Ancestry
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I found the same burial record for John Thomas on Findmypast,
p. 96
Llangynwyd Parish
Glamorgan
John Thomas, age 78, 28 Jan 1870 burial date
I can't read the abode, but it looks like what you found on Ancestry, Dyfrryn Cottages, Coegnant.
Can you double check the cursive for me?
Do you know where Coegnant is in this parish?
Also, i'm wondering what the notations are underneath John Thomas' name in the burial record?
A. 7/2, Vid. Ant: 716A.
Do these indicate location of the plot/grave?
do you have suggestion for how i can locate his burial place-which church/cemetery?
Thank you!
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Coegnant is top end of the Llynfi valley. The name is associated with an area between Nantyfyllon and Caerau (there was once a Coegnant Colliery)
The register is helpfully very detailed with grave numbers, sizes, whether it's in the old or new yard etc.
If it is your John, according to the report of Hannah's death he was buried in Llangynywd churchyard - which fits the references to old and new yard as there's an extension over the lane from the church.
Apparently it's the largest private burial ground in Europe?
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Hello, still trying to understand details of John Thomas' burial. The burial register merely says burials in the parish, not necessarily a burial in the Anglican church, Parish church St. Cynwyd's.
there is an inference from the news article from 1894 re: his widow Hannah Thomas stating he was buried in Llangynwyd Church near Maestag.
I haven't been able to get more information on burial details for either John or Hannah yet from Glamorgan archives.
The news article about Hannah Thomas talks about her joining the independents at an early age and keeping her faith to the end. Maybe there was no burial ground associated with whatever independent church/chapel she or they belonged to?
if it is Parish Church St Cynwyd's Llangynwyd, is there a burial plan for cemetery for use when i visit the churchyard? Or how to find it?
Thanks for any help you can give.
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My understanding is the burial register you've seen is parish records (ie maintained by the church). As far as I am aware the church had one mainburial gruond at the parish church, which was extended prior to John's death (as the records refer to burial in the new yard)
I wouldn't be surprised if the burials were in the parish churchyard as many chapels didn't have their own burial grounds. This led to disputes as everyone had the right of burial in their parish churchyard according to civil law but the Church’s policy was often to allow only their own clergy to conduct the service and only for those baptized as Anglicans. The legislation that allowed Ministers of other denominations to perform ceremonies in Church burial grounds was passed in 1880, so after John was buried by a vicar
Not sure if there's a plan, but the current parish area has a contact us page https://www.llynfiafan.co.uk/contact-us
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Thank you that is helpful.
Can you explain what you saw in the notation for John Thomas' burial that points to the new burial yard?
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I didn't mean his was in the new yard, just that many of the entries in the same register refer to it
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THank you. i've sent an email to the vicar for assistance.
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Update, have not heard back from St Cynwyd church yet, but Glamorgan Archive confirmed Thomas, Hannah and son Richard Thomas (formerly foster son Richard Found from 1851 census) are buried in same grave and they think it is in the new graveyard, but the grave plan for the new churchyard in the Archive is in poor condition and dated 1864, so prior to burials in my case. The Archives also checked the Glamorgan Family Historical Society's Monumental Index for the church and came up with the memorial inscription and translated it for me. All very helpful.
I'm going to ask the Archives and/or Vicar if they can enlighten me further on burial in the Parish church if the Thomases were members of an independent church/chapel.
Question: how can i research adoption of Richard Found into the Thomas family? He's not in my direct line, but I"m curious.
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I think they're in the old yard, as entries on the same page of the register as John very clearly mark which burials are in the new yard, and John's isn't. Having said that, Richard Found's burial in 1869 was in the new yard.
As I mentioned before, everyone had the right of burial in their parish churchyard according to civil law, so many nonconformists were buried in the local churchyard. Quite of few of mine were up in North Wales.
Richard's history will be difficult to find, as there were no legal adoptions in those days. His 1861 census entry suggests he was actually found. He may have been fostered out to the Thomases by the poor law union
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Thanks, that all makes sense.
Richard's place of birth was Oystermouth, which isn't exactly close by. Maybe his family followed the coalmining and didn't survive.
At least when I visit the church I can visit the old and new churchyard, even without a specific grave.
You have been so much help, thank you.