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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Staffordshire => England => Staffordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: ValJJJ on Thursday 13 February 25 18:11 GMT (UK)
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I have a 1st June 1806 marriage of Joseph BANNISTER and Catharine HOLDEN at St Matthew, Walsall with the info from a transcription only. This is on Family Search and Ancestry.
Does anyone have access to the image please?
Thanks.
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I’m particularly interested in which parishes they were of, and if it was by banns or licence, whether they signed and who the witnesses were.
Catharine was from Lullington, Derbyshire and Joseph was from Marchington. So perhaps work led them to meet and marry in Walsall. In censuses they both lived in Tutbury.
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While you're waiting...
A fuller transcript on FreeReg
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/6186a916f493fd50d8bbdc8d/
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Thanks for that. I didn't try Freereg cos I knew they don't have images. That'll teach me!
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FreeReg is pretty good for Staffordshire.
Doesn't tell us if the marriage was by banns or licence though.
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You can do a witness search on there, and there were scores of marriages at St Matthew witnessed by John Smith. So it would appear likely he was a regular (unless it was a different John Smith!)
Maybe just as well!
William Pointer, however, seems to have witnessed just that one.
There is a William Painter marriage there in 1801 to Susannah Higgins. William was a widower.
Witnessed by John Smith.
So it would be good to check the 1806 marriage image, make sure it says Pointer.
Nothing in the Lichfield Marriage Allegations and Bonds database for Joseph Bannister and Catharine Holden. So it looks like it was by banns.
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Thanks Jonwarnn.
There often seems to be one regular witness doesn't there? Perhaps connected with the church in some capacity and on hand when needed.
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The Ancestry transcript states FHL Film Number 0973340 IT 2, 421612, 497336, 497337, 497338, 497339
But I’m not sure how to use these numbers.
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Hi
They are film numbers for Bishops Transcripts for Walsall St Matthew
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/327443
The marriage as indexed on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N214-KXZ
If you look under document information it says the source is MF 421612 (so from the BT). You can't see these at home.
In any case, the BTs for 1806 may not have the full info from the PRs, especially the marriages.
I am not sure that FamilySearch have filmed the St Matthew parish registers. In fact they may not be online anywhere, they don't seem to be on findmypast?
So the FreeReg transcript may be the best source we have online for the marriage info.
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Hello
I can't see the marriage either but if these are the couple in Tutbury taking their children to the Nonconformist chapel I think you have the right marriage.
Joseph 25.10.1806 Gt Barr,William 7.5.1809 Hanbury,David 8.5.1814 ,Job 8.10.1816 ,Elizabeth 18.4.1819,Enoch 24.5.1821,Reuban 14.9.1823 and Mary Ann 13.10.1825.
The 1851 and 1861 censuses give births Joseph Marchington 1784 and Catherine Lullington Derbyshire 1785.
There are christenings for the couple.
Joseph Bannister 10.10.1784 Marchington s of Joseph and Ann
Catherine Holden 14.5.1785 d of Joseph and Elizabeth at Lullington (not on FindMyPast)
The Holdens seem to have come from Walsall and presumably moved back there.
William 2.10.1773 ,Jno Sander 25.9.1776 ,Joseph 23.9.1779 and Jane 28.9.1782 are all christened at Walsall and there is a marriage.
Joseph Holden and Elizabeth Bott 14.6.1771.
Catherine the only one baptised in Lullington.
Does that help ?
Ciderdrinker
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Hi
They are film numbers for Bishops Transcripts for Walsall St Matthew
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/327443
The marriage as indexed on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N214-KXZ
If you look under document information it says the source is MF 421612 (so from the BT). You can't see these at home.
In any case, the BTs for 1806 may not have the full info from the PRs, especially the marriages.
I am not sure that FamilySearch have filmed the St Matthew parish registers. In fact they may not be online anywhere, they don't seem to be on findmypast?
So the FreeReg transcript may be the best source we have online for the marriage info.
Thanks for that insight. I will contact FamilySearch to see if they have filmed them. I'll also contact the Staffordshire archives offices (the last time I went to Stafford to look at parish registers, I went to the William Salt library but think it's all changed now). It might mean a trip to Stoke or Stafford to see the microfilms as it's a short train journey, or pay the research fee for a copy.
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Hello
I can't see the marriage either but if these are the couple in Tutbury taking their children to the Nonconformist chapel I think you have the right marriage.
Joseph 25.10.1806 Gt Barr,William 7.5.1809 Hanbury,David 8.5.1814 ,Job 8.10.1816 ,Elizabeth 18.4.1819,Enoch 24.5.1821,Reuban 14.9.1823 and Mary Ann 13.10.1825.
The 1851 and 1861 censuses give births Joseph Marchington 1784 and Catherine Lullington Derbyshire 1785.
There are christenings for the couple.
Joseph Bannister 10.10.1784 Marchington s of Joseph and Ann
Catherine Holden 14.5.1785 d of Joseph and Elizabeth at Lullington (not on FindMyPast)
The Holdens seem to have come from Walsall and presumably moved back there.
William 2.10.1773 ,Jno Sander 25.9.1776 ,Joseph 23.9.1779 and Jane 28.9.1782 are all christened at Walsall and there is a marriage.
Joseph Holden and Elizabeth Bott 14.6.1771.
Catherine the only one baptised in Lullington.
Does that help ?
Ciderdrinker
Yes that does help a lot, thanks so much. I did have the census info, and all the children at Tutbury, which is why the Walsall marriage puzzled me. Should have looked harder at the Holden family.
I have a Joseph Holden m Elizabeth Mason in Lullington on 6 Feb 1784 (subject of another thread https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=889258.0)
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Joseph and Elizabeth - such a common combination of names. ;D
21 Oct 1731 in Walton on Trent, a Joseph Holden married Elizabeth Leedham of Coton in the parish of Lullington.
Possibly not the parents of these children, but maybe grandparents?
Lullington parish records
1764 bap Mary dau of Joseph/Elizabeth Holden buried 1766
1765. Dec 22 bap Ann
1773 Mar 29 bap Joseph
1776 Aug 21 bap Frances
1778 bap William
1782 Nov 3 bap John buried 1782
1784 a Joseph Holden m Elizabeth Mason. Was Joseph a widower?
1785 Catherine (who married in 1806 to Joseph Bannister in Walsall)
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Re Parish Registers for St Matthew's Walsall, the last time I checked the Registers were still with the church, there is a microfilm version of the registers, but the images are not of high quality with some entries impossible to read, much to my annoyance as a number of my ancestors were baptised, married or buried there.
After a small fire at St Matthews, as well as a couple of break ins I did suggest to Staffordshire Archives and Heritage that it might be good idea if they tried to persuade the incumbent minister to deposit them at Stafford given the historic nature of the registers they hold. I am unsure whether this happened as the registers don't appear in the online catalogue, however both Stafford and Walsall Archives have the registers on microfilm with the caveat of poor quality stated above.
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That's extremely useful, thanks for that. I'll contact the church to see where the registers are now.
ADD: I did contact the archives at Stafford who said they held the registers, but I didn't think to ask whether they were the originals or the microfilm. Once the church replies, I'll contact Stafford again to see if the microfilm they have is legible. at least for the entry that I want.
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MartinJ1952
Fast response from the church:
"Thank you for your enquiry about old parish registers. All our historic material has been transferred to the Staffordshire Records Office."
Hope you can complete your research now.