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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Pinjarra1929 on Thursday 13 February 25 11:41 GMT (UK)
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hi I am trying to.find out my great grandmother's cause of death and what that meant for my grandad. my great grandfather remarried. Blanche Jeanne Hallewell ne Kitson. born France. died age 36 in 1921 in England poss Norfolk or Hastings. buried with parents in Halifax grave. her son Reginald Stanley Coville Hallewell. her husband Vernon Harcourt Hallewell.
I'd appreciate if anyone would be able to look into her death. I received a copy of Blanche death certificate by Messenger but couldn't zoom to make larger to decipher handwriting. thank you.
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Cause of death is only available via the death cert. She died in Yorkshire - www.freebmd.org.uk
June qtr 1921
Hallewell Blanche J 36 Halifax 9a 539
You can download a digital copy for £1.50
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
Marriages Jun 1905
Hallewell Vernon Harcourt Prestwich 8d 580
KITSON Blanche Jeanne Prestwich 8d 580
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Interesting
REGINALD STANLEY COVILLE HALLEWELL mmn KITSON
GRO Reference: 1916 M Quarter in DOWNHAM Volume 04B Page 473
Vincent Harcourt Hallewell remarried 5.7.21 - very soon after Blanche's death to Gertrude Alberta Coville Hyner
Gertrude Hyner was b Downham - Vincent was b Bradford Yorks & Blanche died in Yorks.
On 15.8.1920 Vincent Harcourt Hallewell & Gertrude baptised a daughter Audrie
Births Jun 1919
Hallewell Audrie Hyner Abergavenny 11a 74
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Blanche Jeanne Hallewell - address on burial register is 33A Pollard St.
Age 36
Burial Date 31 May 1921
Burial Place Salterhebble, All Saints, Yorkshire, England
Grave number is possibly 243 NG
So Vincent remarried only 4 or 5 weeks after her death but was clearly already involved with Gertrude Hyner
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Census 1921, (ie before the marriage) Gertrude & Vernon plus 3 children
Births Mar 1921
Hallewell Arnold Hyner Pancras 1b 51
1914 Electoral roll, Vernon is already in Downham Market
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You didn't say whether you had Blanche's birth certificate.
Just in case, here it is:
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/8da78501426520634def4689f5ad889e/dao/0/165 (https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/8da78501426520634def4689f5ad889e/dao/0/165) Entry 888
Let me know whether you need help translating it.
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1891 entry for 1 Vance Rd Blackpool - all surname Kitson
Mary 62 widow b Honley Yorks
Ann 36 dtr single b Honley
Blanche A 5 g/dtr b Rouen France
Wilfrid H 3 b Rouen
Piece 3454 folio 6
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1884 marriage in Manchester - Benjamin Shaw Kitson & Anne Shaw
1901 for Rochdale shows
Benjamin 43 b Honley
Anne ?43 b Marsden Yorks
Blanche 15 b Rouen
Wilfrid 12 b Rouen - Wilfred Henry on later censuses
Clara 12 b Rouen
Elsie 10 b Oldham
Ellen 5 b Halifax
Piece 3840/45/30
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Let me know if you would like me to look up any of the other Rouen births.
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Who notified Reginald’s birth I wonder.
Pinjarrra, did you buy another copy of the death certificate?
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Another post in which Reginald features
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=889376.msg7630242#msg7630242
Pinjarra
In view of the replies re Reginalds birth & the existing relationship between Vincent & Gertrude there is a small possibility that Blanche may not be his mother. Reginald was b Norfolk which is where Gertrude was from.
Having a suspicious mind makes me wonder if Gertrude was his mother & the birth was registered to make it look like Blanche was his mother? You may be able to rule this out from info you already have but with one of his christian names being Coville - it does raise doubts
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Birth Certificate of Wilfrid Henry KITSON:
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/1836417f0db819baaaba7ad31ed44475/dao/0/124 (https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/1836417f0db819baaaba7ad31ed44475/dao/0/124)
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Birth Certificate of Clara Jane Béatrice KITSON:
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/3df872577ed9b94f584c850dd1c59f70/dao/0/115 (https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/3df872577ed9b94f584c850dd1c59f70/dao/0/115)
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Who notified Reginald’s birth I wonder.
By PM have been told Vernon notified the birth.
Which still leaves room for Gertrude to be the real mother,
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Blanche Jeanne Hallewell - address on burial register is 33A Pollard St.
Age 36
Burial Date 31 May 1921
Burial Place Salterhebble, All Saints, Yorkshire, England
Grave number is possibly 243 NG
So Vincent remarried only 4 or 5 weeks after her death but was clearly already involved with Gertrude Hyner
33A pollard street seems to be a regular dwelling on 1921 census (ie. ot a hospital/nursing home)
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Thankyou for your answers. sorry I made error nit read email notifications. I agree it's likely Gertrude Hyner is Reginalds actual birth mother. in his Fairbridge and Middlemore records there is a letters discussion that Gertrude was requested to show the birth certificate .London Fairbridge write to Middlemore Birmingham that Gertrude showed it to London and
certificate stated Gertrude as birth mum. unfortunately there isn't a copy of any birth certificate in his records unfortunately.
Reg dads names Vernon Harcourt Hallewell but I've made the mistake of putting Vincent instead of Vernon occasionally. sorry!
Re translation offer yes please, I would love some help with translation of the French certificate please.
.if email is best
wendy_Booth2000 at Yahoo .Co. UK
put gaps maybe not really allowed.
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Was the husband Vernon or Vincent, or am I reading this wrongly.
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thank you. yes please re offer look up births.
Ps To WILL COXEN.. its VERNON. to verify is Vernon see my great uncle who died age 21 in ww2 bomber in 1942.
https://www.natwestgroupremembers.com/our-fallen/our-fallen-ww2/h/arnold-hallewell.html
I did not know there were other Rouen births. is one Blanche Jeanne Kitson 's sister? I recall a census with Blanche (my supposed great grandmother) and I think overnight guest named Blanche Swain Kitson. is this one you mean? I think Vernon Harcourt Hallewell was only other person on that census. it's weird both are Christian name Blanche.
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Birth Certificate of Clara Jane Béatrice KITSON:
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/3df872577ed9b94f584c850dd1c59f70/dao/0/115 (https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/3df872577ed9b94f584c850dd1c59f70/dao/0/115)
As requested by PM, translation of the Birth Certificate of Clara Jane Beatrice KITSON.
On the tenth day of December, in the year eighteen hundred and eighty-eight, at four fifteen in the afternoon, the birth certificate of Clara Jane Beatrice Kitson, female, who was presented to us. She was born on this day at seven fifteen in the morning at the residence of her parents, located at 62B Route de Caen.
She is the daughter of Benjamin Kitson, thirty-one years of age, a Carding Machine Setter, and Anne Shaw, thirty-one years of age, unemployed. The parents were married in Manchester, in the Parish of Saint Oswald (England), on the twenty-fourth day of August in the year eighteen hundred and eighty-four.
This birth was formally recorded by us, the Deputy Mayor of Rouen, designated Registrar, based on the declaration of the child's father. The registration was conducted in the presence of John Davidson, forty-six years of age, a coal merchant residing at 69 Rue Lafayette, and Edmund Wooddock, thirty-eight years of age, a tailor residing at 26 Quai du Mont Riboudet.
Having completed the official record, a duplicate of the act was made, and the parties present have signed alongside us, following a reading of the document.
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Birth Certificate of Wilfrid Henry KITSON:
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/1836417f0db819baaaba7ad31ed44475/dao/0/124 (https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/1836417f0db819baaaba7ad31ed44475/dao/0/124)
Translation of Birth Certificate for Wilfrid Henry Kitson (as requested by PM)
On the twenty-eighth day of April, in the year eighteen hundred and eighty-seven, at two thirty in the afternoon, the birth certificate of Wilfrid Henry Kitson, male, who was presented to us. He was born on this day at five o’clock in the morning at the residence of his parents, located at 62 Route de Caen.
He is the son of Benjamin Shaw Kitson, twenty-nine years of age, an employee, and Anne Shaw, thirty years of age, unemployed. The parents were married in Manchester (England) on the eighteenth day of April in the year eighteen hundred and eighty-four.
This birth was formally recorded by us, the Deputy Mayor of Rouen, designated Registrar, based on the declaration of the child's father. The registration was conducted in the presence of Edward Woodlock, thirty-seven years of age, a foreign sailors’ placement officer residing at 1 Rue Saint Éloi, and Louis Deglatigny, thirty-two years of age, a Carding Machine Manufacturer residing at 5 Rue du Passage Dupont.
Having completed the official record, a duplicate of the birth certificate was made, and the parties present have signed alongside us, following a reading of the document.
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thankyou very much for the translation of my grandma and Great uncle's birth certificates. The strange thing is she is in my Grandad's birth certificate as his birth mother - not called Beatrice Kitson but Blanche Jeanne Kitson. I ordered the online pdf death certificate for Blanche who died age just 36. Her dad is named on death certificate as Benjamin Shaw who was present as she was dying in hospital.held her hand. ps. sorry typing is difficult on my phone but cant find money for a decent screen like a laptop or tablet. suffered decades coercive control of my money. dead partner melted my laptop as put on cookers hot plate. always borrowed my laptop, car, meds etc. He died of a dissecting anyeurism age 54 in January 2020 as emergency dept left him undiagnosed and died 8 hrs into waiting for a Dr to help him. hospital would compensate but Co op lawyer, no win no fee, told me we just cohabited so can't claim tho couple 22 years. sad I'm denied help for old fashioned expectations.. so in hardship. I'm a woeful Wednesday's Child!
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Pinjarra1929
Thank you for your reply - Crikey! I thought you might not have regular access to a PC or were maybe on holiday due to the delay in reponse. Your message explains a lot!
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You didn't say whether you had Blanche's birth certificate.
Just in case, here it is:
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/8da78501426520634def4689f5ad889e/dao/0/165 (https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/8da78501426520634def4689f5ad889e/dao/0/165) Entry 888
Let me know whether you need help translating it.
I don't think I translated Blanche's birth certificate for you. So here's a translation for you:
On the thirteenth of May, eighteen hundred and eighty-five, at two o’clock in the afternoon, a birth certificate was drawn up for Blanche Jeanne Kitson, female, presented to us and born on the eleventh of this month at ten-thirty in the evening, at the residence of her parents, 5 Rue Desmaret.
She is the daughter of Benjamin Kitson, aged twenty-eight, a Carding Machine Setter, and Anne Shaw, also aged twenty-eight, housewife, married in Manchester, Parish of Saint Oswald (England), on the twenty-fourth of August last.
This declaration was made before us, Deputy to the Mayor of Rouen and delegated Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages, by the child’s father, in the presence of Messrs. Louis Paul Deglatigny, aged thirty, an industrialist residing at 21 Rue Jeanne d’Arc, and Gustave Pierre Simon, aged thirty-eight, a commercial traveller residing at 8 Place du Vieux Marché.
After the reading of this document, it was drawn up in duplicate and signed by all parties present.
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Thankyou for doing Blanche birth certificate translation. Am very grateful. I have a struggle trying to research even brief details of my family past. Knowing that people are suffering worse currently gets me feeling guilty and ashamed to be losing time reading the masses of nfo about the Fairbridge Pinjarra w Australia scheme that my grandad was emigrated to with no parental informed consent age 12 to 21.
I can't handle possibilities
of unwished for reseults if I did dna test. but he may also be my father due to SA acts he grew up with during 10 years forced labour in solitary confinement. when repatriated in 1937 he seemed to be forced into marriage with a pharmacist and their 2 children were split. mum being younger stayed at home with daily unnatural family SA. Her sister was luckier being sent to live in Lancashire for most of childhood. safe from whatever he'd turned into. I believe an unsupervised police.jauling for 6 weeks age 15 was criminal sa
for buying a 3nd hand suit frim 2 older boys if he even did. Fairbridge did opposite of their contractual guardian role, he was a ward of state from age 12 in Middlemore emigration child hime til shipped to Australia 1929.
I can't accept such cruel policy isn't getting the attention needed fir the intergenerational trauma we suffer. mum said Philip larkin poem thus be the verse was true
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It's a pleasure Pinjarra1929. A dark period in Australian history. The film Rabbit-Proof Fence made a big impression on me and the treatment of Aboriginal children and the attempt at breeding the aboriginal out of existence and the stolen generation.
I've just learnt of the Pinjarra Massacre, which I hadn't heard of before.
You have some story and I can understand that DNA testing might be a step too far. Here's hoping that things get better for you...
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thank you for understanding. its a lonely time because I don't know anymore descendants who ended up with Fairbridge repatriating and so reversing the emigration at age 21. there were 3 or 4 on Grandad's repatriation sailing. called Old Fairbridgians. he received no school lessons as was promised to our family. is so frustrating they can disadvantage generations by doing such an irrational childcare for profits / foreign policy.
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That's awful! Just let us know if you need any further help...
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that makes me smile, thanking you. There's much I want to know research wise but often struggle to order a lust of important questions. so unsure what your offer includes! sorry if I sound stupid, awkward. one thing I keep wishing to find out is circumstances at end of Reginald Stanley Coville Hallewell life. After grandma Ethel Mary Hallewell ne Knowles died 1969 in Birmingham the chemist shut forever as she had the registration and degree.
They'd been living in a nice detached or semi which mum and I went looking at in 2010s. significant as she left home and married a chap whose family had returned from their life in India owning tea business. he had an Indian father who won a card game, the.man he beat paid with his wife for a night!
anyway sorry I can't recall words i need. Grandad Reginald died 1974 I'm a poor man's tiny bedsit in Stratford upon Avon. Fairbridge visited it after each of his paralysing strokes. mum only learned he was dead years later from his younger siblings visiting unexpected with.regs suitcase. there is in mum's diaries mention of trying to see Hugh, a brother, 8n London but think lack of phone working prevented mum's trip to London seeing Hugh. only just read the diary but mum sadly died 2016.
So sorry my paternal grandmother frim Cork. think got Irish way of avoiding scary possible truths.
Point I wonder. why and who made him travel to South Africa for heart surgery in 1970? was in newspaper when he died and I have photo of Reg and more patients in ward. is Christian Barnard hospital the famous fir first human heart transplant surgery. any ideas how it can find out more please? Thankyou.
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hope not too much annoying but if I seem ungrateful I'm sorry. think emotional baggage from unkind institutional responsibility decisions have given families like ours a disproportionate disadvantage to function like average families,, like our peers in school, workplace and neighbourhood. oh and I compare my extended family relatives who come down the line which didn't take the fallout of British Child emigration policy's most extreme adverse outcomes.
Understand most prefer to reject this as you describe "dark period of Australian history" . I don't know of other British policy that had such a vast effect on our country and the security of its average population. This no doubt changes the path of history. Did the decision makers including uk and Australian government and its local governments (including the law courts who rubber stamped the legal transfer of child ownership from the families to the state, who paid subcontractors eg Fairbridge child emigration society, one of fifty of these bodies responsible for hundreds of thousands of insecure vulnerable due to sudden death of a parent etc, children being "stolen " for good, by betraying families to feel it was a beneficial sacrifice to build up with their children's loves the British Empire.
Welcome constructive feedback on some conclusions from my family's unusual treatment
two generations, mum's and mine
born to extraordinary disadvantage I have found out about only when I was thirty years old. trying to make a better life dad disclosed the child abuse mum received. She sat next to him in front of car but didn't add anything as I recall. over the final 15 years mum told me things but I considered my asking questions likely unwelcome due to obvious impact of Fairbridge on her.after she died I received the Fairbridge file.on Grandad. it is valuable telling history.
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It's good to get things of your chest - that's a lot to carry around with you! I'm at work just now, so will get back to you later ...
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1916 birth cert for son Reginald received via email from Pinjarra
Born 18.2.16 in Norfolk & birth registered 22.3.16 solely by Vernon Harcourt Hallewell giving Blanche as the mother. As one of his christian names is Colville coupled with his birth being in Norfolk there is a strong chance that Gertrude was his biological mother. See reply 2.
By 1916 Blanche & Vernon had been married 11yrs without any other children but Vernon & Gertrude had a daughter Audrie in 1919 & a son Arnold on 11.2.21 both born before Blanche died so were clearly having an affair during his marriage to Blanche. Those births show Hyner as mmn
It's possible/probable that their affair started before Reginald's birth hence Vernon registering him with mmn Kitson.
The only way of proving if Gertrude was Reginald's mother is via a DNA test