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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Blue70 on Tuesday 11 February 25 17:08 GMT (UK)
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I was interested to read that Elon Musk's grandmother was from Liverpool. Newspapers reported that Cora Robinson was from Mossley Hill Liverpool but this is actually incorrect she was from Edge Hill Liverpool:
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/elon-musks-scouse-nan-childhood-30622801
If you look at 36 Bridge Road Mossley Hill it's a new build property. So you have to look at old maps to look at what was there in the past to see if older houses were once there. On old maps that land was once a school and later an engineering works no sign of any houses. So where did she live if not Mossley Hill?
The answer is in the 1921 census transcript and extra images! If you only look at and download only the two main images you will miss that it says 36 Bridge Road was located in Edge Hill! The Robinsons, John and Elizabeth, are also shown living there on the electoral registers from around 1919 to WW2. It's no longer used for housing:-
https://maps.app.goo.gl/L39LcrVupvLQ9qrB6
The first of Elon Musk's Robinsons to come to Liverpool was his great, great grandfather Levi Robinson he came to Liverpool in the 1870s he was originally from the Cheshire/Staffordshire border area. In 1911 Levi Robinson was living in Wellington Road off Park Road in Dingle, Liverpool. He was a crane driver on the docks. His son John emigrated to South Africa and married an Afrikaans (Dutch speaking South African) woman called Brechie Elizabeth Theron in 1911. They later returned to Liverpool and Elon Musk's grandmother, Cora Amelia Robinson, was born in Liverpool in 1923.
Blue
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Well what a discovery , but are you sure it is The Elon Musk we all know ?. Somehow Elon and Liverpool and especially his crane driver relative seem at odds . It may just be me . Elon has certainly rose up from his humble roots it seems . Humble is not a word I would equate with him though . Thanks for this bit of social history .
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He is far too powerful for my liking!
Wealth ought not to automatically bring power.
He could do so much good.
I know very little about him but wealth often buys power, for the wrong reasons.
Viktoria.
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You may or may not be allowed to pursue this family history here.
I started a search some time ago about a public figure and it was deleted. I still don’t fully understand the reasoning as all the information was in the public domain.
Just wanted to let you know. You might want to save useful replies in case the thread disappears. :)
With the SA connection it seems like the right family, but newspaper reports can be wrong, depending where they got their information from, so worth double checking using the usual sources if interested in this person’s FH. :)
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Presumably under the “no discussion of living people” rule although some living people seem to thrive on publicity; good or bad.
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The person that was researched here is the grandmother. She died in South Africa in 2011. My main reason for this thread is to address the mistake made in researching the grandmother's home address in Liverpool. She grew up in Edge Hill not Mossley Hill. I've tried to provide evidence to improve and correct previous research.
Blue
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Elon Musk's Liverpool Ancestors
https://merseysidebiographypages.weebly.com/elon-musks-liverpool-ancestors.html
C
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Man claims to know truth about Elon Musk's Scouse nan
A family history researcher delved into the archives to investigate claims about Cora Robinson
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/man-claims-know-truth-elon-31010424
C
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7 Jan 2025 (in his own words)
My British grandmother, Cora Amelia Robinson, was an important part of my childhood. She was very strict, but also kind and I could always count on her.
She grew up very poor in England during the Great Depression only to be bombed in WW2. To earn money for food, she cleaned houses, leaving me with a lasting respect for those who do so.
My Nana was one of the poor working-class girls with no one to protect her who might have been abducted in present day Britain.
************
This was written by Elon Musk on X/Twitter about his grandmother, in reference to the problem of so-called “grooming gangs” in Britain which at the time was being widely discussed throughout the world.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1876582315062858159?lang=en-GB
(viewed more than 51 million times)
UKgirl
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I have done a fair bit of research on the Robinsons, as I have many in my tree, so was wondering if I might have been distantly related to Elon -- sadly not. I was hoping a genealogy magazine would publish this info, but they dont seem interested, so I produce it here:
Cora Amelia Robinson was born in 1923 in Liverpool, her parents being John Robinson, a stonemason from Liverpool, and Bregchie Elizabeth Theron from South Africa, who married in 1911 in Pretoria. John had emigrated to South Africa in 1910, but they must have returned to the UK soon after their first child Levi Robinson was born in about 1912, and had four further children in Liverpool, including Cora. Cora returned to South Africa with her mother and married Walter Musk, the grandfather of Elon. She died in 2011 in South Africa.
John Robinson’s parents were Levi Robinson and Matilda Marsh who married in 1878 in Walton, Liverpool aged 19 so born about 1859, the father mentioned as a Edward Marsh. This Matilda Marsh, according to many trees on Ancestry, was the daughter of Edward Marsh and Emma Cadwallader. But I could not find a birth record or baptism for Matilda. I found them on the 1871 census, with a John Henry Marsh aged about two years as a brother of Matilda. I found that strange, that they had Matilda in about 1859 then John Edward in about 1869, so a gap of about ten years between siblings. The GRO births listed a possible John Henry Marsh born in 1869 in the right area, but the mother’s maiden name was Kilgour.
I did a search on FindMyPast for a Marsh and Kilgour marriage but without success. Then I searched just using Emma Kilgour’s name for a marriage and found a record: in 1859 a Edward Powell had married Emma Kilgour in Manchester. I checked the GRO births for the surname Powell with mother’s maiden name Kilgour and I discovered three births including Matilda. I then found Matilda Powell’s baptism in 1860.
Edward Powell appeared to have changed his name to Edward Marsh on the 1861 Census, after the baptism of Matilda. I also found three further Marsh births including John Henry Marsh. I‘ve yet to find out why the family changed their surname.
I also researched the Edward Marsh who married Emma Cadwallader in 1859. They did have a daughter called Lizzie Matilda Marsh born in 1862 in Oswestry, Shropshire, and she married Edward Hughes in 1887.
So it is easy to be mislead when searching for possible marriages and only one comes up that appears to match. But in this case due to a surname change it was missed, and about 112 trees on Ancestry have the wrong parents of this Matilda Marsh, the great great grandmother of Elon Musk, who was born Matilda Powell. 42 mention Emma Cadwallader. I found only one tree that mentioned Emma Kilgour.
I mentioned earlier about Matilda Marsh (born Matilda Powell) marrying Levi Robinson in 1878. Levi was the father of John Robinson the stonemason who emigrated to South Africa to marry Bregchie Elizabeth Theron, whose daughter Cora Amelia Robinson married into the Musk family. On Levi’s and Matilda’s marriage certificate, Levi is a Smith, which I think is a Ship Smith, and his father is William Robinson, a Gardener. On the 1871 census Levi and his father William are living in Birkenhead with his mother Sarah, with Levi aged 13 born in Mowcop, Cheshire. But I could not find them before 1871, which made me wonder whether there was another surname change – and it seems there was!
Searching for Levi Robinson’s baptism around 1858 with father William Robinson and mother Sarah produced very little that appeared correct. However, dropping the surname gave me a possible record: a Levi Duckworth baptized in Mowcop, parents William Duckworth and Sarah. I was then able to find Levi Duckworth (transcribed as Duckwood?) and family on the 1861 census located in Mow Cop. The GRO birth records revealed a Levi Duckworth birth registered in the first quarter of 1858 in Congleton, Cheshire with mother’s maiden name Thorley. I found in the marriage indexes William Duckworth’s marriage to Sarah Thorley in 1854.
So William Duckworth appears to have changed his surname to William Robinson after the 1861 census. I found a newspaper entry in the Cheshire Observer and General Advertiser dated 6 April 1861 whence a William Robinson was sentenced to one month’s hard labour for Bigamy, no futher details given. There is also a marriage index record in the first quarter of 1861 for a William Robinson and Sarah Duckworth at Burnley Register Office in 1861. Whether it’s the same William and Sarah, I don’t know…
Levi Duckworth/Robinson had the following siblings:
James Duckworth 1855-1855; James Duckworth/Robinson 1856-1934 who married Jane Hilton; Hannah Duckworth 1860- and Joseph Robinson 1865-.
William Duckworth was born about 1831 in Brereton, Cheshire and occupations were Collier and Coal Miner; William Robinson was born about 1831 in Broxton Heath (Brereton Heath?), Cheshire and occupation was a Gardener. Not to be confused with another William Robinson born about 1826 in Eastham, Cheshire, and also a Gardener…
Levi Musk’s English family tree is a real puzzle in places; with some surname changes thrown in, it’s not the easist tree to research, and I can see see why some folk have gone down a certain route without checking actual facts.
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Great work. The 1878 marriage in the parish of Walton on the Hill was at Holy Trinity Church in Toxteth. The parish was very large and included various districts outside of the Walton area. I've seen in other research about how Matilda was a Powell but the Robinsons were originally Duckworths is new to me and that's a fascinating twist.
C
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Thank you for posting this interesting narrative about some of Elon Musk's relatives. (An aside: Musk's mother was Canadian, which accounts for his holding Canadian citizenship, and there might be more British blood there.)
While reading, I suddenly came across the names Emma Kilgour and her daughter Matilda. I have some family connections to Kilgours in Manchester, which is a relatively rare name there, being Scottish. I believe it is highly likely Emma is the daughter of George Kilgour (as per her marriage cert to Edward Powell) and Margaret Reddish. A George Kilgour witnessed my direct paternal ancestor's (Joseph Hibbert) second marriage to Ellen Clare at Manchester Cathedral in 1829. I would think this is Emma's father, for both families lived in Hulme and I cannot find another George Kilgour in the area that works for age.
One of my relatives did actually marry a Kilgour (cannot connect him to George), and I have 3 DNA matches for this line, but I know it is through the bride, Lydia Atherton, not the groom.
There are several other Kilgours witnessing family events, so either there is a family connection through either blood or friendship.
Joseph Hibbert married Ann ?, ca 1820, but I have never been able to find/prove their marriage.
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For DianaCanada,
I am a little unsure of what you are looking for, but is there any chance that this is it?
FreeREG
1819 Nov 14
Joseph Hibbert
&
Ann Lees
married in St. Mary, Prestwich (part of Manchester)
Witnesses: Thos Grimshaw & Edw. Redford
UKgirl
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Unfortunately, no that is not my Joseph, but another, I have traced that family.
There are a few connections to Kilgours in my family, and of course, they could have been family friends. The Joseph Kilgour who married my relative Lydia Atherton is not connected to George that I can see.
Joseph Hibbert's second wife, Ellen Clare, married again to a Richard Hawthornthwaite. One of the witnesses was a James Kilgour, possible son of George, and brother of Emma.
So nothing conclusive.
My best bet for Joseph Hibbert's first wife is Nanney Ridings, marriage took place in Oldham.
So lots of bits and pieces but hard to tie the Kilgours to my lot, except Joseph K. who married Lydia Atherton. Censuses indicate he was born in London, nothing found there, either.
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Re. the Nanney Ridings marriage.
This too is on FreeREG.
It took place at the same church as the Ann Lees marriage:
St. Mary, Prestwich. This is not Oldham.
The witnesses are identical - and present at several of the marriages in that church (also for Joseph Hibbert married in 1820), so perhaps the witnesses' names cannot shed any light on family/friendship connections? They may just be church "staff"?
UKgirl
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Note to atlantikman - error regarding year of marriage
Quote:
I did a search on FindMyPast for a Marsh and Kilgour marriage but without success. Then I searched just using Emma Kilgour’s name for a marriage and found a record: in 1859 a Edward Powell had married Emma Kilgour in Manchester.
1852, Sep. 20, Manchester Cathedral
Edward Powell married Emma Kilgour (father, George Kilgour) witness, Hannah Kilgour.
Emma (born 1828) & Hannah (baptised 1834) were sisters, parents George Kilgour & Margaret Reddish.
UKgirl
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1820 Oct 30, George Killgour married Margaret Reddish at Manchester, St. Mary
Children of George Kilgour & Margaret:
Baptisms
1821 Apr 8, James, Hulme Christ Church – Richardson’s Buildings, Hulme
1822 Sep 1, Samuel (Kilgann), Manchester Cathedral (Manchester, Cotton Spinner)
1824 Sep 19, Mary Ann (Killgour), Manchester Cathedral (Manchester, Carder)
1828 Dec 25, Emma, Hulme St. George, (Hulme, Spinner) (late Reddish)
1831 Feb 13, John (Kilgow), Hulme Christ Church – Christ Church Square, Hulme
1834 Nov 2, Hannah, Manchester Cathedral (Hulme, Carter/Carder)
1837 Nov 26, Matilda, Manchester Cathedral, (Hulme, Spinner)
[also previously 1837 Feb 1, Metilda, Hulme Christ Church - 3, Christ Church Square, Hulme]
1839 Mar 31, Margaret, Manchester Cathedral (Hulme, Spinner)
[also previously 1839 Feb 17, Margaret (Kilgoure), Hulme Christ Church - Worcester Street, Hulme]
Hulme, Christ Church = non-conformist & non-parochial registers
Note: Baptisms at Christ Church, Hulme give place of birth (abode?)
UKgirl
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Good news for DianaCanada
https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/2972/records/2861770?tid=&pid=&queryId=2a50adac-73df-43c4-88d6-21b732c9e370&_phsrc=Rmb202&_phstart=successSource
1831 Christ Church, Hulme baptisms (same page)
1831 Feb 9, Samuel son of Joseph and Ellen Hibbert, born Jan 11 at Jackson's Lane, Hulme
1831 Feb 13, John son of George and Margaret Kilgow, born Jan 29 at Christ Church Square, Hulme
These 2 baptisms are next to each other (consecutive) on the same page.
[Samuel's record is a bit tricky to read, because at a later time, the church has squeezed in another baptism in tiny writing between the lines (that of Thomas son of David & Mary Mordock?).]
Also, similar to the Kilgour children that I have listed above, Samuel Hibbert also has a later baptism at the Cathedral on Dec 18th.
It seems clear that there was a strong connection between these 2 familes (sons the same age, families close neighbours, attending the same church).
There is not doubt that the George Kilgour who was a witness to the 1829 marriage of Joseph Hibbert is this same George Kilgour, father of Emma and co.
UKgirl