RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: CBGenealogy on Thursday 06 February 25 14:18 GMT (UK)
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Have people seen there is a new census website as of yesterday?
There's a lot of teething problems.
Some of the main headlines:
Soundex at last!
Previous urls are dead links so anything you had saved no longer works and neither do the links on Ancestry/FindMyPast/MyHeritage, etc.
Search functionality not great at the moment but I'm sure it'll improve.
I've done a blog post with more details.
https://cbgenealogy.ie/irish-national-archives-has-a-new-site/
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My old links are still working atm. If I click on a hyperlink I have already saved it takes me to the old-style layout. I'm not sure if they will continue to work.
My biggest problem with the site atm is the new links to the records. Here's an example-
Household of John Caskey in 1901 census (old link)-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballymena_and_Town_and_Urban_District_of_Ballymena/Hill_Street/926195/
New link (putting in only 1901 & John Caskey)-
https://nationalarchives.ie/collections/search-the-census/census-record/?census_year=1901&surname__icontains=Caskey&firstname__icontains=john&id=4478696
New link (putting in 1901, John Caskey, County Antrim, Presbyterian)-
https://nationalarchives.ie/collections/search-the-census/census-record/?census_year=1901&surname__icontains=caskey&firstname__icontains=john&county=Antrim&religion_updated=Presbyterian&id=4478696
Obviously the more filters now used the long a link will become.
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Interestingly, they seem to have just reactivated all the old links in the last hour or so!
Agree the new links are very unwieldy. I stopped trying to update mine for the time being.
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My old links still working. Have you tried clicking on the old one I posted to see if it works for you?
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I presume this is in preparation for the release of the 1926 census at the end of the year.
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Your old 1901 census link, aghadowey in reply #1 still works for me. ;)
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Old style is still working - just on a general search.
I don’t like the new style but i suppose we will get used to it.
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You know how on the old one you could click on the name of the street or townland to get a list of all the surnames.
In the one aghadowey posted above you click on Hill street and get this
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballymena_and_Town_and_Urban_District_of_Ballymena/Hill_Street/
Can anyone see anything like that on the new one? I found it very handy.
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I just eent on to the search page and entered the townland and county and got a list of everyone.
I prefer the neater one of old.
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That's no good if you don't know the townland in advance, there is a filter on the side with surnames but it just gives the number with each surname you don't get the simple list where you can see if a name is spelt differently or where the first name has been entered in the surname column.
I know I'll get used to the new one but I don't think I'm going to like it, like the map viewer, the old one was much better.
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Like most of these sites I think it was designed by people who didn't think through transferring the old features over, hadn't used the old site/wouldn't need to use the new one ...
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There must have been a lot of negative feedback for them to put the old site back online.
I emailed a large number of points to them this afternoon. I know the Irish pro genealogy circles were buzzing today. as far as I know, no one was asked to test it in advance.
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There must have been a lot of negative feedback for them to put the old site back online.
I emailed a large number of points to them this afternoon. I know the Irish pro genealogy circles were buzzing today. as far as I know, no one was asked to test it in advance.
The link on the NAI genealogy page leads to the old census search page, So how did you find the new one?
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It's linked in my blog post.
https://nationalarchives.ie/collections/search-the-census/
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The new site, as well as requiring far more scrolling ( on my device at least), also needs far more testing/fixing.
Randomly testing the 1911 census just now, using a single surname without soundex on, with specific County, and ticking the exact matches only box.
The resulting offering is a complete mess.
It has random people, from a different County and different DEDs within that County, included on the list. When then clicking through to the household, those random people are still showing in the resulting list. In this example, on a Londonderry household, the accompanying list has intermingled numerous people from County Down. Indeed there were more names below those that I managed to capture in the screenshot ( I have just shown the address section, as the Town land/Street column immediately demonstrates those people cannot be in the household showing at top of the page).
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The rest of the above list:
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I have now also tested a small, three person household in County Antrim.
That household isn't showing any random others, however, there is a different, major issue. For all three, it is showing random County/Country of Origin entries.
One has Belfast, one Belfast City and one has County of Cork, when all three on the actual image are Antrim. It correctly shows Antrim on original site.
In a nearby, related household, with 7 occupants, the results correctly have six showing as Co Antrim, but one incorrectly showing as Whitehouse, Co Antrim. All seven are Co Antrim on image.
Methinks I should not bother running any more tests at present.
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So it's even worse than we thought. Imagine some newbie trying to figure out where their family was living ::)
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This will give people more inclusive, diverse choices! Will replace results from rigid white patriarchal thinking with diverse and equitable outcomes for all searches going forward!
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The previous mention of scrolling might suggest that the new application design has focussed on smart phone and tablet users (ie. swiping), rather than just PC / laptop users.
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The previous mention of scrolling might suggest that the new application design has focussed on smart phone and tablet users (ie. swiping), rather than just PC / laptop users.
...indeed. Yet that said, my experience of 'more scrolling' (actually, much more scrolling), is on a tablet, without desktop setting on, and just as bad if I switch to desktop settings.
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This will give people more inclusive, diverse choices! Will replace results from rigid white patriarchal thinking with diverse and equitable outcomes for all searches going forward!
I would just appreciate the correct info being copied without change, from old site to new (other than if an actual mistake had been showing on the old site, which had been spotted/notified before the switch and was being corrected on the new site).
;D
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This will give people more inclusive, diverse choices! Will replace results from rigid white patriarchal thinking with diverse and equitable outcomes for all searches going forward!
WF you've got a very good grasp of this 'lingo'. Better watch out as they may call on you to translate formerly easy to read English into 'modern business' English. ;) ;D
NB mild degree of sarcasm
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This will give people more inclusive, diverse choices! Will replace results from rigid white patriarchal thinking with diverse and equitable outcomes for all searches going forward!
WF you've got a very good grasp of this 'lingo'. Better watch out as they may call on you to translate formerly easy to read English into 'modern business' English. ;) ;D
NB mild degree of sarcasm
Vast experience in writing this sort of stuff at a "world leading" US university ;D
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When I checked an example, religion is incorrect.
The original form in the 1911 clearly states the family members were Church of Ireland.
The transcription states Roman Catholic.
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Have tested some more. Just like the example I gave at reply #14, another household return has results that give random, extra members in the list of residents. On clicking through from each of those random, extra members though, the resulting summary page, if clicking on one of the rogue, extra residents, gave the summary details for the correct household member in the line above (when clicking through from a correct member, details were of correct member).
So, eg
A list with residents:
A known member
B. rogue member
C. known member
D. rogue member
E. known member
Clicking through from each of A, C and D respectively, results in record summary for A, C and D respectively.
Clicking through from B and D respectively, results in record summary for A and C.
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There must have been a lot of negative feedback for them to put the old site back online.
I emailed a large number of points to them this afternoon. I know the Irish pro genealogy circles were buzzing today. as far as I know, no one was asked to test it in advance.
@Purpeller, did any of those points include issues similar to those I have highlighted on this thread, or would it be worth me emailing too (conscious of trying not to duplicate notification of issue examples, as that would just create even more workload for them at what methinks will be turning out to be a rather busy time already, judging by these 'teething' problems)?
I do wonder if they forgot the old addage of Test, test and test again, and/or lost or didn't follow, their data migration checklist. I also wonder which, if any, user group was used to do a Beta trial of the new site before the launch.
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Yet another example of a different 'teething' problem:
For a household in Larne, with 10 correct residents, the 'Residents In .......' list is showing N/A in the 'Relation to Head of Household' column for each, and the 'Individual Summary' details pages are also showing N/A against the 'Relation to Head of Household' line. All relationships to 'Head' correctly appear on the original census document, either in full word or with ditto marks. As with other examples earlier in thread with different issues, the original website for this further issue example, does include the Relation to Head on the summary page (albeit the people are in a different order).
It is great that the originals are supplied and that is what we should be ultimately relying on rather than the Residents in Household lists and/or the Individual Summaries pages. However, when doing lots of searches for either self use or to help others (on sites such as Rootschat), being able to quickly scan read down/through the Residents In lists and/or Individual Summaries and trust they have correctly captured pertinent details from said original, has always been helpful and we should have the confidence that these lists/summaries are accurate reflections of the info captured on originals.
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I'm sure all have now seen the warning box on all sections of the old site Important Notice (Updated February 2025).
This census records system has been replaced with a newer version available at https://nationalarchives.ie/collections/search-the-census/ and will be coming offline in the coming months. Any updates made to the data will only be reflected in the new system and there will be no automated links established between the old and new census systems. Please ensure you make all necessary arrangements as soon as possible.
The old search still accessible via the Genealogy microsite https://genealogy.nationalarchives.ie/
all databases in it also scheduled for demolition and rebuilding
https://nationalarchives.ie/collections/genealogy-website/
Microsites for family history research
Diocesan & Prerogative Marriage Licence Bonds Indexes, 1623–1866
Catholic Qualification & Convert Rolls, 1700–1845
Tithe Applotment Books, 1823–1837
Valuation Office House, Field, Tenure & Quarto Books, 1824–1856
Shipping Agreements & Crew Lists, 1863–1921
Wills and testamentary records
Prerogative & Diocesan copies of some wills & indexes to others, 1596–1858
Will Registers, 1858–1900
Calendars of Wills & Administrations, 1858–1922
Soldiers’ Wills, 1914–1917
Plans for the future
Due to the vast quantity of material and the complexity of the separate databases, we have not yet progressed with upgrading and enhancing these microsites. While the style of the pages may now appear somewhat outdated, they continue to offer tremendous value for genealogical research. We remain committed to upgrading these sites in the future.
The NAI may not be the only change we have to deal with this year, be prepared that all BMD pdf addresses on IrishGen may also change. 1 Oct 2024
The irishgenealogy.ie website is now fully functional again, our apologies for any inconvenience caused during the recent down time.
Work is underway on a new, improved site which will be live in the coming months.
as announced on Facebook by the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht (NAI and the 1926 census also falls under their remit).
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tmx/ and http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tmy/
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=885407.msg7589271#msg7589271
see email I dropped them. John Grenham had not been informed or consulted then "our site uses direct links into IrishGenealogy. We're at the mercy of the gods (read "civil service")."
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I just did a random search of the 1851Census….Belfast….Dunmurray…Drumbeg.
Random selection of a name….John Morris.
The below was the result.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XJCs2Yzz/IMG-3390.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k67NGq9Q)
(https://i.postimg.cc/gjyNWBdy/IMG-3391.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YL91NRvj)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BvyhcKMF/IMG-3392.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWHQRLVq)
The new web planners and administration need to do a lot of work to put these problems right…in it’s present form the New Site is a NIGHTMARE
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There must have been a lot of negative feedback for them to put the old site back online.
I emailed a large number of points to them this afternoon. I know the Irish pro genealogy circles were buzzing today. as far as I know, no one was asked to test it in advance.
@Purpeller, did any of those points include issues similar to those I have highlighted on this thread, or would it be worth me emailing too (conscious of trying not to duplicate notification of issue examples, as that would just create even more workload for them at what methinks will be turning out to be a rather busy time already, judging by these 'teething' problems)?
I do wonder if they forgot the old addage of Test, test and test again, and/or lost or didn't follow, their data migration checklist. I also wonder which, if any, user group was used to do a Beta trial of the new site before the launch.
I think it's worth you doing an email on your points (sorry for slow reply - Rootschat didn't tell me there were new replies on thread).
For what it's worth, some of the errors I was picking up initially are now not replicable, so clearly work is going on in the background.
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I've heard nothing about any user testing.
Although, I wouldn't admit to it if I had been, considering how bad things are!!!
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Good to see that the Government are adopting Silicon Valley best practices - have your user base do the beta testing for you for free! ;)
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IRISH GEN has changed overnight links posted to birth marriage and death records on the old format site NO LONGER WORK
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IRISH GEN has changed overnight links posted to birth marriage and death records on the old format site NO LONGER WORK
Oh dear not another disaster I hope :-\
One error still here- child's name is DAVID not Davit and mother's maiden name WATTON not Witton-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1905/01788/1702041.pdf
When submitting feedback for mis-transcription I can submit child's name but can't see any way to say mother's name is incorrect.
I did get this reply which probably means absolutely nothing- "Thanks for contacting us! We will get in touch with you shortly."
Found error number 2 with incorrect mother's name so as a test I put a note in box for male/female!
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Have noticed that some, not all, pre-1900 births are showing mother's maiden name in the index.
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Have noticed that some, not all, pre-1900 births are showing mother's maiden name in the index.
Always were, John Grenham noted last year in a blog and offered an explaination but as they seem random I was thinking more that were perhaps ones that had had user corrections to fornames/surnames suggested by the public and they had had to revisit to correct so had added at same time.
Think they are/were all included from Q1 1899 (not 1900) ie a birth 29 Nov 1898 registered 2 Jan 1899 will have maiden surname but one 30 Nov 1898 registered 10 Dec 1898 will not.
No rolling year and most of the site FAQ's etc are the same with a transfer into a longer mobile portrait format from a PC landscape one to assist one-off phone searches rather than someone spending more extensive time on a PC opening loads of pdf tabs.
Whilst in the search results page they have Mother's Birth Surname: N/R for an 1864 birth when open the Birth record for is 'Null' as in not recorded/untranscribed, null and void, threw me was looking for a mistranscribed Neill on the pdf for a sec.
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I was aware that some random ones seem to show mother's maiden name earlier but there was one in 1887, etc.
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Whilst the death search index is showing year and age as usual, when you click through to the summary page for the individual, it is showing NULL.
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More problems- this time marriages.
Two searches I did had the wrong image but they were also listed again with correct image.
Used to be able to include surnames of bride and groom for marriages but I can't see any way to do this now. However there's the option to search with day and month.
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More problems- this time marriages.
Two searches I did had the wrong image but they were also listed again with correct image.
Used to be able to include surnames of bride and groom for marriages but I can't see any way to do this now. However there's the option to search with day and month.
You now need to use the Choose Other Recorded Person tab, under Advanced Options, to add spouse surname.
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For those with spreadsheets should be possible to convert url's using
https://www.extendoffice.com/documents/excel/1437-excel-change-multiple-hyperlinks.html otherwise Excel will change the text to display and not the actual address link, will find and change even if the text to display has been shortened to eg civilrecord.
Just find/replace in Word/text files.
find civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images and replace with irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil
Some may be possible depending where they are using the likes of Family Tree Maker eg in Notes but likely most have to done manually (for everyone in your tree) if have copied and pasted the old into Web address box of an IrishGen custom citation or as a Web link.
NEW vs OLD (www. is not actually needed)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1864/03609/2331592.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03609/2331592.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1845/09284/5361738.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1845/09284/5361738.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1921/05092/4398010.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1921/05092/4398010.pdf
When select sort by date for marriages sorts by year but May comes after November 1845.
Births only have the year displayed eg 1921-1921 on initial page, date appears when open next Birth record screens for individuals.
CHURCH RECORDS baptisms, marriages and burials needless to say have also changed
Had to find an old reply on here I made to to be able to compare but eg Dublin 1866
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-511-3-2-007
to https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/church/d-511-3-2-007.pdf
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bugs found https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1857342/more-untested-changes-to-irish-genealogy-websites
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I think this should probably be a different thread than the census website discussion, but here's my review of the new Irishgenealogy site.
https://cbgenealogy.ie/new-site-for-irishgenealogy-ie/
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CBGenealogy/Claire re. your map comment they have sort of provided their own, at least copied the NLI's one. Had not spotted the loss of age detail.
FAQ's Can you explain the locations.
A map and listing of these districts can be viewed on the here
https://www.nli.ie/sites/default/files/2024-02/nli_fh_civil_districts_map_eng.pdf
from https://www.nli.ie/family-history/further-research and relatively new.
But Record Sources > Civil Records help > What does the location mean on a record links to John Grenham's PLU maps.
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Thanks! It's still a cop out. They shouldn't be directing us away from the site!
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Perhaps this site will invent one for Irish Genealogy links as well.
I forgot to post this
Turns old links for census into new, that’s the claim I haven’t tried it
https://daenis.com/census-tools
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It works - I've tested it out.
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Turns old links for census into new
Excellent, will bookmark that.
"One major change is that in the new format it is possible to make a direct link to a specific household return record. This converter will do is check if a record is a household return and if it is, it will find the "Head of Family" for the household and make a link to that person that will also include all other household members."
All my spreadsheets and documents link, like on Ancestry/Findmypast etc, to the summary pages that then have the multiple links to householder returns, additional pages with house number, Enumerators Abstract, house & building returns, outbuildings etc.
Tested with a person in already open tab who is an 11 year old son of the householder
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/70564/records/17110029
input the household summary link
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Banbridge_Rural/Drumnagally/205684/
output is
https://nationalarchives.ie/collections/search-the-census/census-record/?census_year=1911&county=Down&ded__icontains=Banbridge_Rural&townland__icontains=Drumnagally&image_group=205684&firstname__icontains=William&surname__icontains=McNeill&id=571355
So works but all in Excel would have to be updated manually via edits of url and copy and pasting to & from for the sort of one name databases I have (those distant cousins in the area with same surname possibly related if could delve back into the 1700's). Hopefully when it comes to it Ancestry etc will eventually get round to a similar repair which would fix people in the tree itself.
Still don't like the 'modern' layout/presentation and scrolling up & down to read.
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The site now automatically converts and opens oldstyle irishgen civil BMD pdf links stored in Ancestry trees, text, weblinks, documents or spreadsheets.
No editbot / macro or find-replace essential, changing & updating to the shorter newstyle optional.
Rather than returning an error the old format links in Reply #41 and snip below now open the new.
Saves me a lot of editing/grief in Ancestry.
Apart from the church records (they still return a Page not found) as those links have been shortened at the start and the extension .pdf added at the end so d-511-3-2-007 in the example is now sandwiched.
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Wildcards seem to be accepted in the surname box if Exact name matches only is left unticked.
but they return NO RESULTS if ticked.
eg due to early spelling variations I used to use W*t*r*l for surname to capture Weatherall, Wetheral, Withirill etc
but of more use was the ability to input Eliza* or Ann* for spouse's forname in the advanced screen and can't seem to do that any longer?
Similarly can't input Sm*th for mother's maiden surname (No results found. Please try a different search), just Smith or Smyth and get results for one or the other.
You can still back-browse and alter input, but as the advanced options boxes disappear when click search if you re-click the down arrow intending to change an input they are all blank again, be it spouse forname Mary to May, mother or spouse surname, or age at death.
Sm?th is not permitted in advanced box for mother but Sm?th is accepted in standard surname box.
You can have an Eliza*Sm*th unticked with mother Murphy or with spouse Murphy.
At the moment can't seem to throw them in at will like before.
https://www.johngrenham.com/blog/2018/12/03/wild-cards-are-a-gnlgsts-bst-frnd/
https://www.johngrenham.com/blog/2023/05/06/irishgenealogy-search-quirks/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHuVF8G2_QA&t=795s
Have filled out their 'contact us' form and sent message.
Edit: Old church record pdf links now also re-connect & open rather than returning an page not found error.
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Location is still by Superintendent Registrar District – I had hoped they’d change this to county
Problem is Lurgan District includes 3 counties (Armagh, Down & Antrim) and appears under all 3 in the NLI District pdf text. Banbridge spans Down & Armagh and even if go down to Sub-District level per the titles at top of births and deaths (not marriages) can still have occasional townlands in another county falling into them. Birth & Death Sub-District is not transcribed and entered into the database, so can't use to assist in splitting into appropriate counties. You would have to include results for Lurgan in its entirety for all 3 counties if county was the (sole) selection parameter.
Co Tyrone includes townlands in Armagh District, so at the moment select Armagh and get a small part of Tyrone (Caledon Sub-District), but if changed to Tyrone county would have to include 8 Sub-Districts in Armagh. It also contains parts of Donegal & Fermanagh. Similarly the seven registration districts that total Co. Monaghan contain or are part of 5 other counties.
Personally prefer them linking to the reference maps and leaving as is. Happy that Antrim does not include Ballymena, Belfast, Larne, Lisburn etc and that Co. Down consists of parts or the entiity of Belfast, Downpatrick, Newtownards, Belfast, Lisburn, Newry and each is searched individually.
Agree the likes of https://www.swilson.info/regdistmap.php and https://www.swilson.info/explorer.php can be useful to assist those abroad and those unfamiliar with the district name their ancestor lived in.
They could add County then have a drop down menu select of the Districts within, as FreeBMD does for England and Wales (it even permits selection of multiple districts by use of the shift key). Currently District selection has to be typed in or fine-tuned after an entire island search.