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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Eric Hatfield on Saturday 01 February 25 06:27 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone, the 1851 Welsh census on Ancestry shows Hugh Jones living in Trefriw in Caernarvonshire, and born in the village in Denbighshire shown in the graphic below.
The transcriber has listed it as "LLandyit" but that isn't a viillage I can find and it doesn't look right. The letter which they've transacribed as "d" doesn't look like any of the other d's on the page (none have that flourish at the top) but I can't see anything else it could be.
I've looked up a list of Denbighshire villages, but I can't make any fit. Perhaps it is the name of a house rather than a village?
Can anyone decipher it please?
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Llandegla ?
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Or Llanddoget where he married in 1846??
Kay
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Is this his marriage in 1846??
Hugh Jones - Farmer from Pantycarw Parish of Trefiw??
Age Full
Marriage date 18 Nov 1846
Event Marriage
Marriage place Llanddoget Denbighshire
Father's John Jones - Farmer
Spouse Jane Williams
Her father William Williams - Farmer
Added https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Llanddoget
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I think Hugh and family were living at Pantycarw Parish of Trefiw in 1851 https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CAE/Trefriw linking back to his residence at the time of his marriage
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Thanks for these thoughts.
I thought of Llandegla (it seems possible from the entry) but it is a long way (for those times) from where he lived otherwise, so I'm unsure.
I didn't think of Llanddoget, but it is possible if we assume the minister who made the entry omitted one of the d's. On that, I'm interested in your info about his marriage, because I am trying to trace a Hugh Jones (common name! :( ) who married Jane Griffith, whereas the marriage you mention was to Jane Williams. If you are right, I haven't yet found the Hugh Jones I want. ???
I am tracing back from John Jones who emigrated to Australia and whose parents were Hugh Jones (farmer) and Jane Griffeth from "Navan". John most likely was born in 1847. The only couple I could find in Ancestry's records that fitted were the Trefriw couple, and I thought the wedding you referenced was a different couple of similar names (not uncommon with those names!). But I missed the Pontycarw connection (because I didn't examine that wedding document in detail because I had rejected it because of the name Williams). But that seems to prove that I was wrong. Which means I have to try to find another couple that fits. :(
But best to know now rather than later.
Thanks.
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Navan sounds more like Navan, Meath, Ireland but from childhood I remember a Nevin https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CAE/Nefyn :-\
Kay
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How confident are you about son John's date? There is a Hugh Jones marrying a Jane Griffith at Nevyn, Carnarvonshire, 9 Feb 1849. At the time Hugh was a mariner, but his father Hugh was a farmer.
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Navan sounds more like Navan, Meath, Ireland but from childhood I remember a Nevin https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CAE/Nefyn :-\
I have heard that "Navan" was a slang word for Caernarvonshire. Don't know if that's true. Nefyn seemed a bit of a stretch to me but I'm open to anything at this stage.
How confident are you about son John's date? There is a Hugh Jones marrying a Jane Griffith at Nevyn, Carnarvonshire, 9 Feb 1849. At the time Hugh was a mariner, but his father Hugh was a farmer.
I have found over years that ages can be very flexible! So I can't be confident. But at his marriage (Sept 1881) John is said to be 34 and at his death (Jan 1896) he is said to be 48 and 27 years in Australia. So if he wasn't born exactly in 1847, I don't think it could be very different. The documentation definitely says Hugh was a farmer, and I don't suppose that is so often wrongly recorded.
What I am hoping to do is put in a feasible Hugh & Jane and see if Ancestry Thru Lines gives me some matches. So far it hasn't, further strengthening the thought that I have the wrong couple. I will try other couples, including the Nefyn one.
THanks again.
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Looking at trees on Anc - Did he marry as John Griffith Jones??
Looking at the GRO Birth Index I found this one
JONES, JOHN GRIFFITH mother's maiden name GRIFFITH
GRO Ref: 1846 D Quarter in CARNARVON Volume 27 Page 317
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Couldn't resist a look at the 1846 birth and it's not the right John
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Did he marry as John Griffith Jones??
Yes, and it's also the name on his death documentation.
Couldn't resist a look at the 1846 birth and it's not the right John
I have looked at at least half a dozen plausible births (and a few implausible) but none of them seem to fit after I trace the familes through a few censuses. I'm basing this on Hugh being a farmer and John being born about 1847 and emigrating to Australia in 1868.
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Sadly the surnames don't make it easy and his father might have died or remarried pre 1851 :-\
Do you know how old he was when he emigrated??
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Do you know how old he was when he emigrated??
At his death he was 48 and 27 years in Victoria (Australia), making him 21 if that info is accurate.
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This family may be completely unrelated and the father is a miner but posting just in case, At the moment I can't see them other than in this census
1861 - Living at Village, Byers Green, Auckland, Durham - All but James listed as born N Wales N K (Not Known)
Hugh Jones Head Married 37 Coal miner -
Jane Jones Wife 32 - -
John Jones Son 13 Driver colliery -
Richard Jones Son 11 Trapper colliery -
James Jones Son 5 1856 - Hetton, Durham
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Yes, that is a coincidence! I can't feel it is them, but I will check. It shows the difficulty when all the names are so common.
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Hi
Me again !
Two points :
1. Patronymics were still being used in the western reaches of Caernarvonshire (Llyn Peninsula) in the 1840's.
2. Do not rely on Baptism registers in these areas of Wales, non-conformism had taken a strong hold on these rural areas and children weren't being baptized in churches and nor were as many couples getting married in the churches.
Nesta
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Sorry forgot to mention
Have a look at YFfor.com. A small donation is requested to access the information. Many hundreds of hours of transcription has given us an invaluable source of local records for the Llyn Peninsula including Non-conformist (chapel), Parish, Census, school and Nefyn and its surroundings are included.
Hope it helps.
https://yffor.com/index.html (https://yffor.com/index.html)
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How confident are you about son John's date? There is a Hugh Jones marrying a Jane Griffith at Nevyn, Carnarvonshire, 9 Feb 1849. At the time Hugh was a mariner, but his father Hugh was a farmer.
Just to mention in 1881 the above mentioned Hugh Jones is a farmer. IF John is the son of this couple he was likely illegitimate. Maybe that is why he went by John Griffith Jones..just a thought.
FH tree for family, but not checked details. The are a few others for same family.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/168742127/person/352603420600/facts
Just to add - I live in South Wales, but have travelled most all of Wales in my 60+, and as others have mentioned, I have never heard Caernavon shortened to Navan or similar. I would also go with Nefyn/Nevin.
Maybe DNA testing would help..just a few thoughts
Cas
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The other thread seems to be covering the same ground
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=889459.0
Note that at least three of us who are of Welsh origin and who live, or have lived in Wales agree.