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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: ~buttons~ on Friday 31 January 25 13:40 GMT (UK)
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With apologies - probably a very simple question/answer but ...
What's the difference between the layout/ info on a Parish Register Burial record post 1840
and
the same record but from Bishops Transcript.
Is it same form/layout or is extra info added to one & not the other as I can't see any difference.
I have many hundreds of Burial records on file & have no idea if they're from PR's or BT's ::)
(I have always assumed PR's but now I need to confirm it?) :-[
Thanks one & all
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You can browse "transcripts" or "copies" at FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1309819
You will need to log in/register after clicking on browse.
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The simple answer is that the layout and info, in theory, should be the same.
The event (Baptism/Marriage/Burial) details were entered in the Parish Register, which remained at the Church.
A copy register was then transcribed from the original (could have been done concurrently or up to a year later, there's no way to know) and that copy was sent to the Bishop at yearly intervals.
as the BTs were a transcription, copying from one book to another, there is always a 'possibility' that some entries 'may' have been mistranscribed or missed altogether.
If you have these burial records 'on file' do you also have a note of where you found them? If you want to know for certain if they are PRs or BTs you would need to backtrack and check the source.
EDIT -added
If these records you have are from the Diocese of Durham BTs (as per the link Hanes Telu gave) then at the top righthand side of the page there will be a Durham University Library ref in the sort of format as the one I've attached
Boo
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Thanks hanes teulu & Boo
My question, this time, wasn't related to Durham but thanks for the link.
The simple answer is that the layout and info, in theory, should be the same.
The event (Baptism/Marriage/Burial) details were entered in the Parish Register, which remained at the Church.
A copy register was then transcribed from the original (could have been done concurrently or up to a year later, there's no way to know) and that copy was sent to the Bishop at yearly intervals.
as the BTs were a transcription, copying from one book to another, there is always a 'possibility' that some entries 'may' have been mistranscribed or missed altogether.
...
Boo
Thank you Boo
Your explanation was just what I was looking for.
Unfortunately I have all recorded as "PR's" ???
(done before recording exact source was important )
The timing of the recording of the BT's also answers my other question re Durham records.
12 month delay could make a big difference in transcription info.
Again, thank you both for your help.
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The timing of the recording of the BT's also answers my other question re Durham records.
12 month delay could make a big difference in transcription info.
Yes, but do note that we have no way of knowing 'when' they were copied. There are all sorts of possibilities ranging from completing both the PR and the BT at the same time as they went along, to doing the BT in full at the last minute before they were due at the Bishops office.
Boo
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Do not assume that the BTs are an inferior source to the PTs.
The BTs sometimes have additional information included and as they were signed off by the vicar and the church wardens they sometimes correct errors which are in the parish book(s) which were likely filled in just by the vicar or curate; and may have been filled in several days or weeks after the event. Maybe from some scrap of paper scribble on at the event or just from memory.
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Spelk is correct, and, in some cases such as Durham Diocese, the BTs are more readily available.
The ideal I suppose would be to have both, but that's often outside the budget.
Boo
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If you have access to FindMyPast search for baptism of -
Maria Eccles, year 1840, place York, parents James and Mary Ann
View original which should be image 401. Tab back to image 400 which will deliver the "DECLARATION" that the Vicar was required to complete re. transcripts. Note the "N.B" and timetable for forwarding.
Re. completing registers I recall stories of Officiating Ministers recording the event on scraps of paper and writing up the Register some time later.
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Thanks for the extra info Spelk & Boo
Interesting details on the York Baptism book - Thanks hanes teulu
There are 2 records showing Maria's baptism. One is PR, other is BT.
Comparing various PR's to the corresponding BT shows exactly how errors or corrections can occur.
On The Bishop's Transcripts in very small writing at the end it states:
"N.B. All copies of Baptisms, Marriages and Burials must be made out at the expiration of Two Months after the 31st Day of December in every Year, and transmitted to the Registrar on or before the 1st Day of June following."
Excellent example - many thanks
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there's no way to know
Variable but with older ones before the pre-printed boxed layout of Rose's Act there is often a date and annotation at the end by the churchwarden followed by the curate or minister or the starting description is lengthy. Compiled Easter to Easter (tying in with the old new year of 25th March).
https://heritagesearch.oxfordshire.gov.uk/records/DIOC/1/E/7 (also TNA & others).
"Bishops' transcripts are contemporary copies of parish registers. Within one month of Easter churchwardens were compelled, under an Order made in 1598, to send a copy of all register entries made in the previous year to the bishop." From 1813 the minister alone was responsible.
Original parish registers of baptisms, marriages and burials do not form part of the Durham Diocesan Records, if that assists in differentiating some https://libguides.durham.ac.uk/asc-family-history/bishopstranscripts
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I think that 'no way to know' was a quote from a post of mine.
I was referring to whether the copying was done at the same time as each event was entered into the parish register or as a job lot just before the copy had to be submitted each year.
Whichever method was used, of necessity, the declaration would have been made, signed and dated 'after' the last event took place.
If the entries into each register, Parish and BT, were not made at the same time then the date of the declaration would be the same by which time the opening entry could be up to a year old.
Boo
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Thanks for the update john ni
Having finally found a copy of the actual, for real, page of burials from the Parish Registers and compared that with BT - you're correct Boo. There isn't any way to see when one or the other was written.
Surprisingly & contrary to popular belief, the Lamb burial is on the PR for Staindrop in 1838.
The search continues for the "real" HenryLamb
Many thanks for everyone's help. It's very much appreciated