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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Handson on Wednesday 29 January 25 14:11 GMT (UK)

Title: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: Handson on Wednesday 29 January 25 14:11 GMT (UK)
Can anyone tell me what subsequently happened to Susannah? I've been unable to trace anything about her after her marriage.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 29 January 25 14:23 GMT (UK)
Where do you have Richard in 1841/51.  Who else is living with him
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: Handson on Wednesday 29 January 25 15:45 GMT (UK)
In 1841 Richard  (age given as 35) is together with another 14 persons in an Inn in York Street Manchester.
The innkeeper is James Thompson.
Richard Hoskins died on 23 December 1850 and is buried in Chester Overleigh Cemetery.
In 1845 Richard became the licensee of the Black Dog Hotel /Coffee House in Chester.
See attachment of the Black Dog Hotel with Richard Hoskins name on it as taken by none other than Henry Fox-Talbot incidentally. I hope the attachment sends O.K..
/Users/ians/Desktop/BLACK DOG INFO/BLACK DOG COFFEE PIC copy.png
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: Milliepede on Wednesday 29 January 25 16:03 GMT (UK)
Have you found any children for them?  She could be down under a variant of her name such as Hannah or Anna, Susan etc

Did he die as a widower do you know.  You could check to see who is buried with him in case she died first and they are together.

Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: Handson on Wednesday 29 January 25 16:34 GMT (UK)
I looked for any children on freebsd (1837 onwards) and found none.
Richard lead a strange life in that he was a music hall actor and appeared for most of his adult life in comedy shows at various N.W. England Theatre Royals. I've browsed every mention of him between 1830 and 1850 in British Newspaper Archives and there's never been any mention of his wife.
BTW on the marriage certificate his wife signed Susannah but as you say she could have been less formal.
Richard Howard Hoskins to give him his full name was buried without a headstone in Overleigh Cemetery but his grave is recorded. There is no mention of susannah being buried in that Cemetery. or whether he was a widower.
However the burial plot does hold two later Hoskins - two spinsters;  mother and daughter Elizabeth died 1857 aged 67 and Eleanor who died in 1858. Their names are on a headstone over the grave but as I said there's no mention of Richard on the headstone.
As far as I can ascertain the two spinsters are totally unrelated to Richard and originated in Cumberland from an aristocratic family. It seems inexplicable and apparently irrelevant to the mystery about Susannah why the spinsters were interred in the same grave as Richard Hoskins. Could the gravediggers assume that Richard's plot was handy with the same family name in what may have been a crowded Cemetery?
I forgot to add that Richard Hoskins wife Susannah does not appear in the list of 14 persons in the 1841 census.
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: california dreamin on Wednesday 29 January 25 16:49 GMT (UK)
Its a real mystery to be sure.

I wonder if you've had a look at a death of a Susan Hoskins in Liverpool 1851?
Burial is at St Martin in the Field, L'pool (age 48 so yr of  birth approx. 1803)  resident of Cockspur St. death is registered so you could take a punt and buy the d/c?


CD
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 29 January 25 17:49 GMT (UK)
There is an 1851 entry for an Ann Hoskins - widow - aged 50 b Flintshire (shown as Wales Hint on Ancestry)  She is a charwoman in lodgings in Manchester

Piece 2224/406/27
 
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 29 January 25 19:07 GMT (UK)
Just to say for your records, they didn’t marry in Manchester.
The marriage is in the parish of Prestwich and the couple at that time were from Oldham, according to the record.
It doesn’t help with anything else though, sorry.
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 29 January 25 22:22 GMT (UK)
Its a real mystery to be sure.

I wonder if you've had a look at a death of a Susan Hoskins in Liverpool 1851?
Burial is at St Martin in the Field, L'pool (age 48 so yr of  birth approx. 1803)  resident of Cockspur St. death is registered so you could take a punt and buy the d/c?

CD

She's on 1851 at that address - widow, b Edinburgh c 1803. Seamstress
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 29 January 25 22:34 GMT (UK)
I think Eleanor and Elizabeth Hoskins who share Richard's grave are sisters not mother and daughter, judging by the 1851 census and ages at death. Their brother is the Rev James Hoskins, resident in Marchwise, Denbighshire in 1858
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 29 January 25 23:57 GMT (UK)
Quote
or whether he was a widower.

Who reported his death? 
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: Handson on Thursday 30 January 25 09:50 GMT (UK)
I did notice that a Richard Hoskins was living in Murray Street in Liverpool in 1840 according to the electoral registers but it was unclear at the time if it was our man.

However another newspaper search today has uncovered a legal case  in Liverpool against Richard Hoskins  living in Murray St., reported on 3 January 1840.

Here’s an extract literatim from the Newspaper:-
“The plaintiff was Mr. Thomas Walker pianoforte manufacturer and the defendant Mr Richard Hoskins the well known comedian and the landlord of “Dicks Coffee House” in Murray Street near the Theatre Royal. The action was brought to recover £17 7s 6d …. for the balance of an account for hire and tuning of pianofortes and for a new pianoforte. &c,&c.

I know that Richard Hoskins moved to the Black Dog in Chester in 1845, which also became known  informally as “Dick’s Black Dog Coffee House” so could have lived on  in Liverpool after the court case for  a further 5 years.

There’s still no mention of Susannah Hoskins however unless the Susan Hopkins  of Cockshutt St, died 1851, is her.  If Susannah was with Richard in Liverpool did she stay there when he moved to Chester? 
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: heywood on Thursday 30 January 25 10:30 GMT (UK)
As Carole says, who reported the death and does the certificate show a marital status?
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: Handson on Thursday 30 January 25 10:32 GMT (UK)
I need to get the death cert. -wasn't expecting this uncertainty.
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: heywood on Thursday 30 January 25 10:58 GMT (UK)
I hope it helps.
Title: Re: Susannah Gwilliam Who Married Richard Howard Hoskins in Manchester in 1834
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 30 January 25 11:19 GMT (UK)
I think Eleanor and Elizabeth Hoskins who share Richard's grave are sisters not mother and daughter, judging by the 1851 census and ages at death. Their brother is the Rev James Hoskins, resident in Marchwise, Denbighshire in 1858

Not that this helps with finding out what has happened to Susannah - for info.  You would need to verify public tree on Anc*y has following details

Eleanor HOSKINS
Born 12 Nov 1775 Bridekirk, Cumberland
Died  19 Oct 1858 Registered: Great Boughton, Chester

Elizabeth HOSKINS
Born 20 Feb 1789 St Bridget, Beckermet, Cumberland
Died 19 Aug 1857 Registered: Great Boughton, Cheshire

Parents
Joseph HOSKINS b1751-1826 &
Eleanor SENHOUSE 1754-1823

1858 Probate for Eleanor 3 Nov granted to the Rev John HOSKINS of Marchwise, brother