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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Topic started by: deetur on Tuesday 28 January 25 19:52 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
I've been trying to find out more about my great father (paternal maternal) for nearly twenty years now, however I'm at a point where I really don't know what to do next. There is very little information out there (which is strange because he has a very unusual name - Joseph Twigg-Balmer). I have a pulled together a word doc which contains all the information I've managed to find over the years and I'd really love some fresh eyes to take a look and offer any advice please. Sadly I've yet to confirm birth or death so as you can imagine it's incredibly frustrating and I've just been hitting a brick wall for years now.
Is anyone willing to take a look and maybe provide some suggestions? I'm hoping a fresh set of eyes might spot something I've missed and I'd be incredibly grateful.
*Edited to add the information in sections (I do have this in a document which is obviously much easier to read).*
Thanks so much.
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Who did he marry - when & where?
What is his fathers name on the marriage cert
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A tree on Ancestry has him as Joseph H Twigg-Balmer b 1882 Cumberland & married Elizabeth Dunsdon
A Joseph Henry Twigg was b Whitehaven 1882 mmn Lowden - have assumptions been made that this is Twigg-Balmer?
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There are WW1 military papers for Joseph which record his next of kin as his brother James in South Africa.
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Mr J Twig Balmer (born 1880) emigrated to South Africa with his wife in 1904
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There are WW1 military papers for Joseph which record his next of kin as his brother James in South Africa.
Deserted 1915.
All this probably known by deetur as there are various posts elsewhere seeking or posting information.
I just saw this which is interesting. Scroll down for his name - also confirming his desertion.
https://robertbickers.net/books/getting-stuck-in-for-shanghai/the-suwa-maru-contingent/
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As others have said, it would be more helpful to put the basic details that you do know about Joseph here rather than emailing you for a document. :D
You probably also know that a Joseph TWIGG BALMER , mining engineer of Malakand (Pakistan) appears on a Freemason membership register in 1909.
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Previous thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=154631.msg716392
Danni, posting several requests only causes frustration and confusion. RootsChatters genuinely like to help, but tend to give up when effort is being duplicated.
If you have a word document with complete information, save it as a PDF file and attach it here. If it is long, you may have to attach one page at a time.
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I'll try and post in sections here what's in the document.
All information that I have on Joseph Twigg Balmer:
From the information I have, it would appear that the first time ‘Twigg-Balmer’ was used was in 1904.
Sometimes spelling is Twigg Balmer and sometimes Twigg-Balmer.
From Divorce Papers: Petitioner Victor Weeden, Respondent Elizabeth Weeden and Co-respondent Joseph Twigg Balmer
I have the divorce papers for my Great Grandmother Elizabeth Weeden (nee Dunsdon 2c 204). Joseph appears as the co-respondent.
Her husband Victor Weeden (2a 919) files for divorce from Elizabeth as he accuses Joseph Twigg-Balmer and her of committing adultery, resulting in a child (Anthony Claude Weeden born Dec 1915 - 1b 15) and later my Grandmother (Kathleen Betty Twigg-Balmer, born January 1919 - 1b 172).
Victor was serving with 2nd Battalion Oxford and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry in France.
Marriage finally dissolved in 1922 (on 18th July 1922, Victor filed a notice and affidavit for decree absolute. On 24th July 1922, the marriage was dissolved).
Elizabeth and Victor were married on 24th December 1912 (2a 2433) at The Registry Office Minister in the Isle of Thanet in the county of Kent. They then lived together at The Old House Aylesbury in the county of Buckinghamshire.
A child (Margaret Mary Weeden, 2a 2025) was born March 1912 to Elizabeth and Victor.
After leaving her home with Victor, Elizabeth resides at 46 Canonbury Square, London.
Victor continues to reside at 41 Hereson Road Ramsgate, Kent.
Confession of adultery was apparently made on the 27th day of September 1915 at 24 Delamy Street Camden Town London.
On 9th September 1916 Elizabeth went to live with the Joseph at 46 Canonbury Square London and stayed there with him until and beyond the date of his petition. That they occupied the same bedroom and passed under the names of Mr and Mrs Balmer and that they left on 5th November 1916.
A male child was born on 28th December 1915 at 26 Delamy Street Camden Town London. This child was Anthony Claude Weeden.
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Service Papers
Short Service Papers (WW1), signed up in Aylesbury on 15 December 1914.
Name given: Joseph Twigg-Balmer (also listed Joseph T Balmer)
Aged 32, year of birth 1882
Born: Cumberland
Occupation: Mining Engineer
Yorkshire Regiment – No: 19182
Address: c/o China Association, 99 Cannon Street, EC.
British subject, not married
NOK: James Twigg-Balmer, brother living at Merriman Street, De Beers, Kimberley (I believe there is a number listed but cannot read properly – could be 21 or 25?).
Papers are damaged by fire.
Height: 5ft 8 3/4in
Weight: 146
Chest: 26 ½
Signed up in Aylesbury on 14th/15th December 1914.
Never served in any branch of his majesty's forces or military before.
Deserted: 3rd August 1915
I did find another reference to a another service number: 17652
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Family
My Grandmother was Kathleen Betty Twigg-Balmer (1b 172), born in Islington 23 January 1919. Joseph is listed as the father and Elizabeth as the mother (as Elizabeth Twigg-Balmer). She was still officially married Victor until 1922. Elizabeth is listed as formerly Elizabeth Dunsdon. Birth listed as at 6 Fairmead Road. Father’s occupation Mining Engineer of West Lodge, Barnsbury Square, Islington.
In 1923 Elizabeth married (1b 653) Henry Thomas Brent (1d 95). The certificate states Elizabeth as a widow and formerly Elizabeth Twigg Balmer.
His brother James Twigg-Balmer died aged 49, in 1921 in Rangoon, Bengal, India. He is listed as a Mining Captain. I have only recently discovered this fact and as yet have no idea what James was doing in India. There is no next of kin information on his death record. He died of heart disease.
Name: James Twigg-Balmer
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 08 Jul 1921
Burial Place: Rangoon, Bengal, India
Death Date: 07 Jul 1921
Age: 49
Birth Date: 1872
Marital Status: Unknown
Cause of death: Heart Disease
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B75051-1
System Origin: India-EASy
GS Film number: 527928
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Travel
Located on Passenger lists: although this could be James rather than Joseph. Although the address listed corresponds with that of Joseph and Elizabeth. Given the ages quoted this means his birth year is 1872.
25 June 1904, Southampton - > Cape
Ship: Durham Castle
Mr J Twigg-Balmer (1880, Fitter)
Mrs J Twigg-Balmer (1883)
UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
Name: Mr J T Balmer
Gender: Male
Age: 44
Birth Date: abt 1873
Departure Date: 3 Jan 1917
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination Port: Iddo, Nigeria
Ship Name: Burutu
UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name: Balmer Joseph Twigg
Birth Date: abt 1872
Age: 45
Port of Departure: Africa
Arrival Date: 20 Nov 1917
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: Lagos [Accra]
Ship Name: Akabo
Shipping Line: Elder Dempster Lines Ltd
Official Number: 115268
mining engineer, address in London
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Deaths
Elizabeth's marriage certificate to Henry T Brent states she was a widow. However it's doubtful she could have married Joseph as her marriage to Victor Weeden wasn't dissolved until 1922. So Joseph could possibly have died between 1919 (after Kathleen was born as he is listed on her birth certificate) and before Elizabeth's marriage to Henry T Brent at the end of 1923.
The only plausible death I've looked into so far is Joseph Balmer, age 50 who dies in Southwark in Q Jun 1921. However on purchasing this certificate it lists him as a paperhanger. He is married to an Elizabeth nee Ring and resides at 26 Fair Street.
Could Joseph have simply returned overseas and Elizabeth wanted to save face (as she was already divorced)? Or did Joseph perhaps die overseas.
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Unconfirmed possibilities
1901 census - Twigg, Joseph
1st Battalion Irish Guards, Chelsea Barracks SW
Single, age 22 (1879)
Private soldier
Born Kimberley, South Africa
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Work
There is a mention of his name here ( http://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=joseph+twigg+balmer&btnG=) in the Quarterly Returns of Trade (page 309) of 1913.
He is mentioned in this book Getting Stuck in for Shangai
https://robertbickers.net/books/getting-stuck-in-for-shanghai/the-suwa-maru-contingent/
Joseph Twigg-Balmer
Chinese Maritime Customs 10th Bn. 19th Yorkshire Regt.
Deserted 3-8-1915
J Twigg Balmer
First appointment: Nov 1913
Position: Watcher
Date withdrew: Oct 1914
Position on withdrawal: Third Class Tidewaiter
Port on withdrawal: Lappa
Mode of withdrawal: Resigned
Staff group: British
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Census and Electoral Information
Elizabeth is apparently living at 4 North Street, Walton in 1920, this is listed on the electoral roll. She is named as Elizabeth Twigg-Balmer.
In 1921 Elizabeth Twigg Balmer can be found as a visitor at Saville Street, Brunswick House, Walton on Naze with Anthony Twigg Balmer and Kathleen Twigg Balmer. They are staying with Mr Chandler, his family and other guests. Elizabeth as listed as married.
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Additional Information (hearsay)
Elizabeth’s daughter in law recalls a conversation with Elizabeth where she admitted having an affair with a New Zelander deserter. She said that Victor threw her out and subsequently Henry T Brent looked after her.
Apparently Henry T Brent may have known Joseph and promised to look after Elizabeth.
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Research into possible family??
There is a Joseph Twigg that matches my Joseph on year of birth (1882) and place (Cumberland) according to his Service Papers and having a brother James. This is Joseph Twigg 10b 606.
I have a fair amount of information on this Joseph Twigg – I have his birth certificate, I know his parents details (William Twigg and Mary Sarah Sloan) and his siblings (both those born in UK and South Africa from both of his father’s marriages). Majority of the family moved from Cumberland to South Africa. His parents were originally from Ireland. I don’t believe that Joseph appears on any of the census, as I believe the family left for South Africa before 1891. I do however have his parents and siblings on various census (before his birth, those that hadn’t moved to South Africa and those visiting from South Africa).
I have worked with a researcher in SA to obtain documents for this family. Joseph Twigg’s parents William Twigg and Mary Sarah Sloan both died in South Africa. Mary in 1900 and William in 1903. I have their deceased papers and final account/estate papers from South Africa, but these do not shed any light on a ‘Balmer’ link.
*Sadly I'm not convinced this is the correct family as I have located a descendant of this family and our DNA doesn't show as a match.
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Memberships
It appears that Joseph was a member of the Masons
Name: Joseph Twigg Balmer
Male
Initiation age: 33
Birth: 1975
Initiation date: 9 Oct 1908
First payment: 1909
Year range: 1887-1909
Profession: Mining Engineer
Lodge: Waltair Lodge
Lodge Location: Vizagapatam Madras
Lodge No: 2592
Folio: 209
Name: Joseph Twigg Balmer (misspelled as Joseph Turgg Balmer)
Male
Initiation date: 16 Oct 1909
Year range: 1887-1907
Profession: Mining Engineer
Lodge: Cabul River Lodge
Lodge Location: Nowshera Punjab
Lodge No: 3225
Folio: 236
Name: Joseph Twigg Balmer (misspelled as Joseph Turgg Balmer)
Male
Initiation date: 1909
First payment: 1910
Year range: 1910-1921
Profession: Mining Engineer
Lodge: Cabul River Lodge
Lodge Location: Nowshera Punjab
Lodge No: 3225
Folio: 9
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Twigg and Balmer
There is a marriage that takes place between a James Henry Twigg and Agnes Ann Balmer in 1893 in Derby. Having looked into James (census returns etc) I don't believe this to be Joseph's brother James.
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Contacts
I have contacted De Beers Archive in South Africa and no records for any ‘Twigg-Balmers’. They did share a few Twigg and Balmer records.
I have contacted Mining Museum in Cumbria and again no record of any ‘Twigg-Balmers’.
I have contacted various people on Ancestry who have the mentioned ‘Twigg Family’ in their tree but as of yet have no links to ‘Balmers’.
I have contacted the Whitehaven Records Office in Cumbria, they couldn’t find any records of Joseph or James Twigg-Balmer.
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Links…
It looks like Joseph had links to South Africa (brother James who is listed as next of kin is living/working in South Africa), China (his service Papers list ℅ China Association and he looks to fave been working as a Tidewaiter) and India (member of Masons there and his brother James died there).
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Thoughts
Could the name have been an alias that he used (in which case why would his brother James also have this name)?
Were Joseph and James the same person perhaps?
Other records to look at…
Travel
J F Balmer (perhaps mistranscribed)
Male
32 (Abt 1883)
Occupation: Mining
Departure date: 22 Sept 1915
Departure port: England
Ship: Apapa
Destination port: Lagos, Nigeria
Mr J T Balmer
Male
44 (abt 1873)
Occupation: Mining
Departure date: 3 Jan 1917
Departure port: England
Ship: Burutu
Destination port: Iddo, Nigeria
Joseph Balmer
Service date: 1920-1935
Service place: India
Regiment: 2/4th Battalion The Border Regiment
Regiment No: 200642
Pte Joseph Balmer
26, 1884
Departure: Mombasa, Kenya
17 Aug 1910
Arrival: Southampton
Ship: Dover Castle
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Hi, yes people have assumed that this Joseph H Twigg is the correct one. As they are not directly related to him they are happy to have made this assumption, I'm not happy to just make that assumption and I don't believe that he is necessarily the correct Joseph. The year of birth and the fact that he was born in Cumberland appear to be the only 'match' (if his service papers are correct).
A tree on Ancestry has him as Joseph H Twigg-Balmer b 1882 Cumberland & married Elizabeth Dunsdon
A Joseph Henry Twigg was b Whitehaven 1882 mmn Lowden - have assumptions been made that this is Twigg-Balmer?
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Thanks 🙏🏻. Yes I have been looking for him for a very long time. I have posted all the information I have collected on him.
There are WW1 military papers for Joseph which record his next of kin as his brother James in South Africa.
Deserted 1915.
All this probably known by deetur as there are various posts elsewhere seeking or posting information.
I just saw this which is interesting. Scroll down for his name - also confirming his desertion.
https://robertbickers.net/books/getting-stuck-in-for-shanghai/the-suwa-maru-contingent/
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This is an old completed request for information back in 2006. I've obviously obtained a new information in the years since and therefore asking for help again in case I've missed anything. I'm not trying to cause any confusion, genuinely looking for help in case I've missed anything.
Previous thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=154631.msg716392
Danni, posting several requests only causes frustration and confusion. RootsChatters genuinely like to help, but tend to give up when effort is being duplicated.
If you have a word document with complete information, save it as a PDF file and attach it here. If it is long, you may have to attach one page at a time.
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Thanks, I've added all the information I have to the post.
As others have said, it would be more helpful to put the basic details that you do know about Joseph here rather than emailing you for a document. :D
You probably also know that a Joseph TWIGG BALMER , mining engineer of Malakand (Pakistan) appears on a Freemason membership register in 1909.
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Thankyou for all that information, very helpful to know what you already have. :)
There is an obituary for a Captain L C TAYLOR, late of the Eastern Shipping Company who died 25 Nov 1919 in Penang. One of the mourners was "J Twigg Balmer".
26 November 1919
Publication: Pinang Gazette and Straits Chronicle,
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Another mention of "J Twigg Balmer"
"BISICHI TIN CO. (NIGERIA) LIMITED.
The Creditors (if any) of the above Company are required on or before the 24th day of July, 1920, to send their names and addresses and particulars of their debts or claims to the undersigned who are authorised to discharge all debts and claims properly incurred on behalf of the Company by A. Ernest Thomas and J Twigg-Balmer or either of them while acting as the Attorneys of the above Company. The undersigned will not consider or pay any debts or claims after the date mentioned above.
Dated the 21st day of June, 1920.
PATERSON, SIMONS and CO. LTD.
Weld Quay, Penang
1158-6-7"
29 June 1920
Publication:
Pinang Gazette and Straits Chronicle
Modified to add:
I can see obituaries for Mr A Ernest THOMAS in 1924. Shame I can't find one for J TWIGG BALMER.
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Another mention:
"Mr. J. Twigg-Balmer, of the Bisichi Tin Co. (Nigeria) Limited is reported by the Siam Observer to be stopping in Patani."
17 December 1919
Publication:
The Straits Echo (Mail Edition)
Also, in a list of passengers on the Dilwara from Bombay to Singapore there is a "T. BALMER", on the same voyage was "A E THOMAS", so this is quite likely J. TWIGG BALMER.
11 September 1919
Publication: The Straits Times
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From “British staff of the Chinese Maritime Customs 1854-1949”
J. Twigg-Balmer appointed Nov 1913 as Watcher
Resigned Oct 1914 in Lappa as 3rd class Tidewaiter
1914 Image 80
https://digital.soas.ac.uk/AA00001364/00032/80?search=twigg
1914 Image 239
https://digital.soas.ac.uk/AA00001364/00032/239?search=twigg
from
https://digital.soas.ac.uk/AA00001364/00067/citation
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Amazing, thank you so much 🙏🏻 So exciting to have new information. Really appreciated.
Thankyou for all that information, very helpful to know what you already have. :)
There is an obituary for a Captain L C TAYLOR, late of the Eastern Shipping Company who died 25 Nov 1919 in Penang. One of the mourners was "J Twigg Balmer".
26 November 1919
Publication: Pinang Gazette and Straits Chronicle,
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This one is particularly interesting. Thank you. I will try and look into this further if I can. Really appreciate it
Another mention of "J Twigg Balmer"
"BISICHI TIN CO. (NIGERIA) LIMITED.
The Creditors (if any) of the above Company are required on or before the 24th day of July, 1920, to send their names and addresses and particulars of their debts or claims to the undersigned who are authorised to discharge all debts and claims properly incurred on behalf of the Company by A. Ernest Thomas and J Twigg-Balmer or either of them while acting as the Attorneys of the above Company. The undersigned will not consider or pay any debts or claims after the date mentioned above.
Dated the 21st day of June, 1920.
PATERSON, SIMONS and CO. LTD.
Weld Quay, Penang
1158-6-7"
29 June 1920
Publication:
Pinang Gazette and Straits Chronicle
Modified to add:
I can see obituaries for Mr A Ernest THOMAS in 1924. Shame I can't find one for J TWIGG BALMER.
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Thank you 😊
Another mention:
"Mr. J. Twigg-Balmer, of the Bisichi Tin Co. (Nigeria) Limited is reported by the Siam Observer to be stopping in Patani."
17 December 1919
Publication:
The Straits Echo (Mail Edition)
Also, in a list of passengers on the Dilwara from Bombay to Singapore there is a "T. BALMER", on the same voyage was "A E THOMAS", so this is quite likely J. TWIGG BALMER.
11 September 1919
Publication: The Straits Times
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Thank you, all helping to piece together a timeline 🙏🏻
From “British staff of the Chinese Maritime Customs 1854-1949”
J. Twigg-Balmer appointed Nov 1913 as Watcher
Resigned Oct 1914 in Lappa as 3rd class Tidewaiter
1914 Image 80
https://digital.soas.ac.uk/AA00001364/00032/80?search=twigg
1914 Image 239
https://digital.soas.ac.uk/AA00001364/00032/239?search=twigg
from
https://digital.soas.ac.uk/AA00001364/00067/citation
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Does anyone have any suggestions on finding Joseph's birth please?
Obviously no Twigg Balmer births have been found (apart from my grandmother, Kathleen) in UK.
His service papers show Cumberland as his place of birth. The year is listed as 1882 (although this varies depending on the records through from 1870s).
He has a brother, James who died in India in 1921 (shows his birth years as 1872). Again not much can be found on him.
Any ideas welcome. Thanks.
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With both Joseph and James being so familiar with working in, and travelling around, the Asian countries, and Africa, it does make me think they may have grown up in a family where this was normal. So perhaps the father was in the military, or an international merchant or customs officer, or even something in the diplomatic area.
The surname suggests they were born from a union between a Twigg and a Balmer, but they may not necessarily have been married.
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Research into possible family??
There is a Joseph Twigg that matches my Joseph on year of birth (1882) and place (Cumberland) according to his Service Papers and having a brother James. This is Joseph Twigg 10b 606.
I have a fair amount of information on this Joseph Twigg – I have his birth certificate, I know his parents details (William Twigg and Mary Sarah Sloan) and his siblings (both those born in UK and South Africa from both of his father’s marriages). Majority of the family moved from Cumberland to South Africa. His parents were originally from Ireland. I don’t believe that Joseph appears on any of the census, as I believe the family left for South Africa before 1891. I do however have his parents and siblings on various census (before his birth, those that hadn’t moved to South Africa and those visiting from South Africa).
I have worked with a researcher in SA to obtain documents for this family. Joseph Twigg’s parents William Twigg and Mary Sarah Sloan both died in South Africa. Mary in 1900 and William in 1903. I have their deceased papers and final account/estate papers from South Africa, but these do not shed any light on a ‘Balmer’ link.
*Sadly I'm not convinced this is the correct family as I have located a descendant of this family and our DNA doesn't show as a match.
I appreciate your reasons based on much more detailed research than mine, but Joseph in this family does seem to be a strong contender. It may well be that James and Joseph adopted the extra name for whatever reason and it had no connection to the family names.
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With both Joseph and James being so familiar with working in, and travelling around, the Asian countries, and Africa, it does make me think they may have grown up in a family where this was normal. So perhaps the father was in the military, or an international merchant or customs officer, or even something in the diplomatic area.
The surname suggests they were born from a union between a Twigg and a Balmer, but they may not necessarily have been married.
Thanks so much, it's really helpful to other's thoughts on this. Much appreciated 😊
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Research into possible family??
I appreciate your reasons based on much more detailed research than mine, but Joseph in this family does seem to be a strong contender. It may well be that James and Joseph adopted the extra name for whatever reason and it had no connection to the family names.
I agree that he could be the best contender given the South Africa and mining links. I think I've been so intent on proving a Balmer link that I've been distracted by this. I plan to revisit the information I have on this family and look for other possible DNA matches to see if that leads to anything. Thanks for your comments, I really appreciate it.
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Yes, i would try a wider view with DNA contacts.
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Hope I'm not confusing matters. Like you I wondered about Joseph's parents being William and Mary nee Sloan, but if I have the correct 1871 Census, I could not see how Joseph could fit into the family ie.
Possible 1871 Census @ Frizington, Cumbria .. Twigg .. John, head, 63, bo Staffs; Mary 58, bo Ireland with 4 children - Joseph, Alice, George + William (aged 13 to 29) (the eldest an Iron Ore Miner) plus 3 Grandchildren – John, George & William (3-6 yrs) bo Ireland.
Possible 1881 Census @ Arlecdon, Whitehaven, Cumbria .. Twigg .. William, 37, Iron Miner; Mary S, 25 .. both bo Ireland with 3 children – John - 17. George - 15. William - 13 .. all born Cumberland + Elizabeth, 7; James, 6; Mary, 5; Thomas, 4; Sarah, 3; Margaret, 2; Martha 0 (ie 7 Children in 7 years).
Perhaps your other information on this family explains the gap in the 2 groupings above.
It also looks like the same William above in 1901 Census at 118, Frizington Road, Arlecdon, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England (Head of household being a Mary Gambles) where he is described as William Twigg, Visitor, Widower, Male, 59, bo 1842, Diamond miner with numerous other Twigg visitors.
Cumberland newspapers have a number of articles of the Twigg family of Twizington if they prove to be attached to your Joseph.
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As i see it, Joseph Twigg b 1882, Whitehaven mmn Sloan.
William was married twice and the older children are from his first marriage.
He married Mary Sarah Sloane in 1873.
The family emigrated to S A before 1891 so Joseph is not on an English census.
Some of the children remained though and are in 1891 census with a Kilbride family, if i recall.
In 1901 - good find- he has some of his SA born children with him.
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The children are listed in Mary Sarah’s probate record -1900
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2HT-KLXN
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The children are listed in Mary Sarah’s probate record -1900
And in William's! He died 1903, probate following year
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS4N-SKHW
All typed out, followed by some certificates
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BY-D9T5-3
It seems to say that he left a will, but I can't see it on there.
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As i see it, Joseph Twigg b 1882, Whitehaven mmn Sloan.
William was married twice and the older children are from his first marriage.
He married Mary Sarah Sloane in 1873.
The family emigrated to S A before 1891 so Joseph is not on an English census.
Some of the children remained though and are in 1891 census with a Kilbride family, if i recall.
In 1901 - good find- he has some of his SA born children with him.
Thanks. William's first wife was Jane Snowden.
I think Mary Gambles is Mary's mother (so William is staying with his mother in law whilst visiting from SA).
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The children are listed in Mary Sarah’s probate record -1900
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2HT-KLXN
Thank you, I have seen this previously. Years ago I paid a SA researcher and she sent me this along with a few other bits.
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The children are listed in Mary Sarah’s probate record -1900
And in William's! He died 1903, probate following year
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS4N-SKHW
All typed out, followed by some certificates
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BY-D9T5-3
It seems to say that he left a will, but I can't see it on there.
Thank you, can't remember if I've seen this before or not but will take another look along with other info on this family.
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How many Joseph Twiggs were there in South Africa?
Probably not connected, but anyway!
A baptism, 14 April 1905, Beaconsfield, Kimberley
Margaret Gwendoline
Born 8 March 1905
Parents Joseph + Mary Ellen Twigg
Abode Beaconsfield
Father a Miner
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GTWM-WR3
She sadly died in November 1905 in Kimberley Hospital, age 8 months
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-956W-8V8
A death notice
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSQ8-3SS7-9
Burial of Margaret Gwendoline Twigg, 21 November 1905 at Beaconsfield
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9TWM-243
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Something odd about that birth/baptism, it's a one off.
Marriage 6 February 1905, Johannesburg
James Henry Twigg, 29, born Frizington, Cumberland, England, Divorcé
+
Elizabeth Edith Doran, 21, born Frizington, Cumberland, Spinster
By Special Licence
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C91F-5QB4-9
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18th January 1923, Johannesburg
Charles Dobbie, 48, born Scotland, Bachelor
+
Elizabeth Edith Twigg (or? Doran), England, Divorcee
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C91V-G7NB-1
She died in 1926. Had two children by James Twigg
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS37-3S2N-Z
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James Henry Twigg died in hospital in Johannesburg, South Africa, 30 July 1922
Age 50. Born (something like!) Frizington, Cumberland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSSW-T94Z-Z
So he is not James Twigg-Balmer!
His brother James Twigg-Balmer died aged 49, in 1921 in Rangoon, Bengal, India. He is listed as a Mining Captain. I have only recently discovered this fact and as yet have no idea what James was doing in India. There is no next of kin information on his death record. He died of heart disease.
Name: James Twigg-Balmer
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 08 Jul 1921
Burial Place: Rangoon, Bengal, India
Death Date: 07 Jul 1921
Age: 49
Birth Date: 1872
Marital Status: Unknown
Cause of death: Heart Disease
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So he is not James Twigg-Balmer!
Or am I going round the bend? Bedtime!
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Oh dear. I am so disappointed!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGKD-4PY
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Joseph Twigg born 1882 in Frizington, son of William and Mary Sarah, seems to disappear?
Named in his parents death notices.
But, unlike his brother James Henry, I can't see anything further for him South Africa.
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James Henry Twigg died in hospital in Johannesburg, South Africa, 30 July 1922
Age 50. Born (something like!) Frizington, Cumberland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSSW-T94Z-Z
So he is not James Twigg-Balmer!
His brother James Twigg-Balmer died aged 49, in 1921 in Rangoon, Bengal, India. He is listed as a Mining Captain. I have only recently discovered this fact and as yet have no idea what James was doing in India. There is no next of kin information on his death record. He died of heart disease.
Name: James Twigg-Balmer
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 08 Jul 1921
Burial Place: Rangoon, Bengal, India
Death Date: 07 Jul 1921
Age: 49
Birth Date: 1872
Marital Status: Unknown
Cause of death: Heart Disease
Do you know, I've always wondered if this death in India was actually Joseph? Maybe because not much is known about James (other than the mention of him being NOK on Joseph's service papers). Highly unlikely I know but everything seems to fit with Joseph. I guess until I can narrow down which Joseph is mine and work from there we'll have to assume it's definitely James.
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Oh dear. I am so disappointed!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGKD-4PY
Me too, this family definitely seems to fit in many ways but sadly doesn't look like it is the right line. Sincerely appreciate all your help 🙏🏻
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How many Joseph Twiggs were there in South Africa?
Probably not connected, but anyway!
A baptism, 14 April 1905, Beaconsfield, Kimberley
Margaret Gwendoline
Born 8 March 1905
Parents Joseph + Mary Ellen Twigg
Abode Beaconsfield
Father a Miner
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GTWM-WR3
She sadly died in November 1905 in Kimberley Hospital, age 8 months
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-956W-8V8
A death notice
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSQ8-3SS7-9
Burial of Margaret Gwendoline Twigg, 21 November 1905 at Beaconsfield
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9TWM-243
This is definitely an interesting one, I vaguely remember briefly looking before at this child.
There is a Mr and Mrs J Twigg-Balmer leaving England in 1904. He is a Fitter. I'm not sure if it's James or Joseph though. One definitely travels as 'married' although I know that Joseph didn't marry my great grandmother as she was still married and then remarried in 1923 and her marriage certificate states widow (which I assume refers to Joseph being dead as her first husband certainly wasn't, they divorced).
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Something odd about that birth/baptism, it's a one off.
Marriage 6 February 1905, Johannesburg
James Henry Twigg, 29, born Frizington, Cumberland, England, Divorcé
+
Elizabeth Edith Doran, 21, born Frizington, Cumberland, Spinster
By Special Licence
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C91F-5QB4-9
I really really appreciate all your help with this. It's so nice to get another set of eyes on it as I've been looking for long sometimes you miss obvious things. Thank you so much 😊
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James Henry was divorced in 1901 according to that record.
A brief tree refers to a divorce for James and Elizabeth in 1913 and her death in 1926.
James’ death notice confirms the divorce and 3 male children.
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Joseph Twigg born 1882 in Frizington, son of William and Mary Sarah, seems to disappear?
Named in his parents death notices.
But, unlike his brother James Henry, I can't see anything further for him South Africa.
Trying to piece together a timeline.
First mention (I've found) of Twigg Balmer is 1904 when a J Twigg Balmer (and wife) travel to SA from UK. - this could be Joseph or James.
1908/09/10 - member of Masons in India. - this is Joseph.
1913/1914 - working as a Tidewaiter in China. This is Joseph.
From other records I have already found he is in UK around 1914/15 as he signs up to army. He also starts a relationship with my great grandmother (who is married) which results in two children (born Dec 1915 and Jan 1919).
He is in SA in 1917 before returning to England. This is Joseph as the returning address is where he is staying with Elizabeth.
In Singapore/ Penang around 1919/1920 working for Bisichi Tin Mining Co.
(I have nothing before 1904 and nothing after 1920, apart from James's death in 1921).
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I have tried searching for street indexes etc, with no success, to see who was living at 2*, Merriman Street in 1914 - just in hope.
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I have tried searching for street indexes etc, with no success, to see who was living at 2*, Merriman Street in 1914 - just in hope.
Thank you for looking 🙏🏻
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There is a militia record, or two records, in 1898 for a Joseph Twigg, 3rd Battalion, Border Regiment
Age 17 years 6 months / 17 years 8 months.
Grocer.
Born and living in Frizington, Cumberland.
Discharged in April 1898, medically unfit.
Maybe that was Joseph Henry Twigg, born around the same time in Frizington, and who may have a WW1 record (I don't have access to that at the moment)
Doesn't look like the Joseph Twigg who went to South Africa.
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1901 census - Twigg, Joseph
1st Battalion Irish Guards, Chelsea Barracks SW
Single, age 22 (1879)
Private soldier
Born Kimberley, South Africa
Again, how many Joseph Twiggs in South Africa? :-\
There is an army service record (in WO 97) for a Joseph Twigg, 13 November 1899
Kings Own Royal Lancaster Regiment, number 6121
Born near Kimberley, Griqualand West, South Africa
Age 18 years and 3 months
He was a Stoker.
Currently in the militia, the 3rd Battalion of the Royal Lancs.
Physical description.
Next of kin Father William Twigg, 22 Tucker Street, West End, Kimberley, S.A.
Now this chap has a colourful record...
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Attested 13 November 1899
Appointed L/Cpl 23 January 1900
Reverted (misconduct) Private, 16 March 1900
Posted 22 April 1900
Absent 1 February 1901
Rejoined 5 February 1901
Deserted 30 March 1901
Rejoined & awaiting trial 22 August 1902
Sentenced to 84 days H.L. 4 September 1902
All prior serviced forfeited on conviction of desertion
In prison
To duty / Posted Pte 27 November 1902
Absent without leave 30 April 1903
In cilvil custody 1 May 1903
In guard room awaiting trial 2 May 1903
Tried and convicted 13 May 1903
i Desertion
ii Stealing goods + property of a comrade
Sentenced to 6 months in prison with H.L.
Discharged with Ignominy 18 May 1903
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Joseph Henry Twigg has a military record (1916/17) but I can’t work out the regiment. It states though that he had been in 5th Border regt.
He was a clerk, b Frixington and living Hexham.
Is your recent post about the one ‘born S A’, jon?
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Hi heywood
Thanks for looking that up, I think the militia records in 1898 can be ruled out now.
Yes, the later stuff is about another Joseph Twigg, (allegedly) born Kimberley, S.A. With a father called William!
Bit more on him
It may be that when he deserted in 1901 from the Royal Lancs he went on to commit a crime in August in Lancashire. Stealing from a lady called Annie Sandham in Dalton. Sentenced at Ulverston to 6 months hard labour.
There are criminal records online for him in 1901 (age 19)
And some newspaper reports, possibly conflicting in some of the detail? I only can see a couple of free ones. Age 19 or 21. Did he really have service in South Africa?
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The children are listed in Mary Sarah’s probate record -1900
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2HT-KLXN
Her death certificate gives her usual residence as West End, Kimberley
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-Y3Q3-LC
Next of kin Father William Twigg, 22 Tucker Street, West End, Kimberley, S.A.
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Which South African one is this one?
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/fef6d912-7411-46de-b42d-0c0ee19a4666
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That might be an error.
William came back in 1901 with several children - mentioned earlier.
William and some family
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSV2-X28
Here is Primrose and Tilly
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSV2-X2J
They arrived on the Dunvegan Castle in Feb 1901 along with a Mitchell family.
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Lots to catch up on, thanks. Will take a look and try to digest 😉
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From “British staff of the Chinese Maritime Customs 1854-1949”
J. Twigg-Balmer appointed Nov 1913 as Watcher
Resigned Oct 1914 in Lappa as 3rd class Tidewaiter
1914 Image 80
https://digital.soas.ac.uk/AA00001364/00032/80?search=twigg
1914 Image 239
https://digital.soas.ac.uk/AA00001364/00032/239?search=twigg
Amazing to see those images!
I just saw this which is interesting. Scroll down for his name - also confirming his desertion.
https://robertbickers.net/books/getting-stuck-in-for-shanghai/the-suwa-maru-contingent/
Really fascinating.
I think the incoming passenger list for the Suwa Maru to London in 1914 is on ancestry.
Is he in their index as Mr T Balmer, age 25?
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Name Mr T Balmer
Arrival Age 25
Birth Date abt 1889
Port of Departure Yokohama, Japan
Arrival Date 15 Dec 1914
Port of Arrival London, England
Ports of Voyage Kobe; Nagasaki; Shanghai; Hong Kong; Singapore; Penang; Colombo; Port Said
Ship Name Suwa Maru
Shipping Line Nippon Yusen Kaisha
Official Number 17308
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It's another definite sighting for your timeline, deetur!
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Name Mr T Balmer
Arrival Age 25
Birth Date abt 1889
Port of Departure Yokohama, Japan
Arrival Date 15 Dec 1914
Port of Arrival London, England
Ports of Voyage Kobe; Nagasaki; Shanghai; Hong Kong; Singapore; Penang; Colombo; Port Said
Ship Name Suwa Maru
Shipping Line Nippon Yusen Kaisha
Official Number 17308
Looks like he signed up in Aylesbury the day he arrived back in England
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It's another definite sighting for your timeline, deetur!
Absolutely 👍🏻
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Just found this... It's service papers but with the other military number that I found on it. I can't view the actual documents but from what I can see the only difference/addition (aside of the number) is residence place being Carlisle.
Name Joseph Twigg Balmer
Age 32
Birth Date 1882
Birth Year (Estimated) 1882
Birthplace, Cumberland, England
Residence Place Carlisle,,
Military Regiment
17652
Military Company/Regiment
Yorkshire Regiment
Event Type Military Service
Event Date 1914
Affiliate Publication Number WO 363
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVBG-9L6B
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I have already seen that military record that you found on Family Search. It has not been transcribed correctly. It is the same that you see on Ancestry. On the original document the number 17652 has been crossed through and the correct service number is 19182. (Just some clerical slip up at time of attestation). There is no mention of Carlisle. The addresses given are Joseph's at 99 Cannon st, and his brother at 21 Mereman st De Beers, Kimberley.
It does seem that Joseph resigned his post in China at the outbreak of the war and headed 'home' to sign up to fight. Why he then deserted 8 months later is curious.
My other thought is that he may not have been completely truthful about his age when he attested - perhaps wanted to appear either younger / or older than he actually was?
He attested for the 10th Battalion Yorkshire Regiment. The battalion was in Aylesbury training from Nov 1914 to May 1915, and then returned to Halton Park (Buckinghamshire) for a couple of months. Joseph deserted just before the battalion left for Witley camp (Surrey) in preparation for proceeding to France.
A little information here.
https://www.wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=6225
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Association
Here is some information about the “China Association”. One wonders if there was a family connection which helped Joseph gain a position there?
Their archives are lodged with the School of Oriental and African Studies in London. I wonder if they might have any records for the name Balmer or Twigg.
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Doesn't offer anything new, but have just found in a list of volunteers who have "come home from China to enlist" Supplied by the Secretary of the China Association (who were at 99 Cannon St).
"Pte. D Twigg-Balmer 10th Yorkshire Regt., Aylesbury, Bucks."
Someone's error of "D" - I'm assuming this is Joseph.
14 May 1915
Publication: North China Daily News Online
Can't see any other mentions of him in North China Daily News
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Association
Here is some information about the “China Association”. One wonders if there was a family connection which helped Joseph gain a position there?
Their archives are lodged with the School of Oriental and African Studies in London. I wonder if they might have any records for the name Balmer or Twigg.
Thanks, will definitely reach out to them and ask. 🙂
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I have already seen that military record that you found on Family Search. It has not been transcribed correctly. It is the same that you see on Ancestry. On the original document the number 17652 has been crossed through and the correct service number is 19182. (Just some clerical slip up at time of attestation). There is no mention of Carlisle. The addresses given are Joseph's at 99 Cannon st, and his brother at 21 Mereman st De Beers, Kimberley.
It does seem that Joseph resigned his post in China at the outbreak of the war and headed 'home' to sign up to fight. Why he then deserted 8 months later is curious.
My other thought is that he may not have been completely truthful about his age when he attested - perhaps wanted to appear either younger / or older than he actually was?
He attested for the 10th Battalion Yorkshire Regiment. The battalion was in Aylesbury training from Nov 1914 to May 1915, and then returned to Halton Park (Buckinghamshire) for a couple of months. Joseph deserted just before the battalion left for Witley camp (Surrey) in preparation for proceeding to France.
A little information here.
https://www.wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=6225
Thanks for clearing that up, I thought perhaps the cross out might have been an error or perhaps a previous number but seeing it with that number confirmed that it's not any different so one less thing to look at, thanks.
I wonder whether the fact my great grandmother was pregnant in 1915 with Joseph's child as they were having an affair had anything to do with him deserting. Guess that's something we'll never know. The child was born in the December if that year.
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Doesn't offer anything new, but have just found in a list of volunteers who have "come home from China to enlist" Supplied by the Secretary of the China Association (who were at 99 Cannon St).
"Pte. D Twigg-Balmer 10th Yorkshire Regt., Aylesbury, Bucks."
Someone's error of "D" - I'm assuming this is Joseph.
14 May 1915
Publication: North China Daily News Online
Can't see any other mentions of him in North China Daily News
Excellent, thanks 🙏🏻
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Wonder if this is linked at all... we have Mason records of him being in India around 1908-1910. His brother James died in Rangoon in 1921.
Name Joseph Balmer
Service Date 1920-1935
Service Place India
Campaign or Service India
Regiment or Unit Name 2/4th Battalion The Border Regiment
Regimental Number 200642
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???
Name J H Balmer
Gender Male
Departure Age 46
Birth Date abt 1873
Departure Date 31 Jul 1919
Departure Port England
Ship Name Gloucestershire
Shipping Line Bibby Line
Search Ship Database
Destination Port Rangoon, Burma
Master E Robin
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Hi, don't know whether you have it, there is also a freemasons entry for Joseph Turigg Balmes (Madras)
It seems that the existence of Mr Twigg Balmer or the two Twigg Balmers can only be verified from 1904 to 1921 :(
Some questions!
Who registered the birth of your grandmother, Joseph or Elizabeth?
Do we have Joseph's last known outward voyage from the UK, presumably circa 1919?
And (sorry to harp on about him!), do you have the birthdate of Joseph Twigg from Frizington (the SA one)
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Name J H Balmer
Gender Male
Departure Age 46
Birth Date abt 1873
Departure Date 31 Jul 1919
Departure Port England
Ship Name Gloucestershire
Shipping Line Bibby Line
Search Ship Database
Destination Port Rangoon, Burma
Master E Robin
Isn't that where James died in 1921?
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Hi, don't know whether you have it, there is also a freemasons entry for Joseph Turigg Balmes (Madras)
It seems that the existence of Mr Twigg Balmer or the two Twigg Balmers can only be verified from 1904 to 1921 :(
Some questions!
Who registered the birth of your grandmother, Joseph or Elizabeth?
Do we have Joseph's last known outward voyage from the UK, presumably circa 1919?
And (sorry to harp on about him!), do you have the birthdate of Joseph Twigg from Frizington (the SA one)
Thank you, yes I have that freemason record 😊. I think there are three entries for Twigg Balmer for the freemasons.
Absolutely, the first record (that I've managed to find so far) that mentions Twigg Balmer is the 1904 journey from England to SA.
We have a 1917 from England to Nigeria.
I have reference to him via the newspaper articles highlighted here in Penang in 1920.
We have the potential one to Rangoon in 1919 (although that could be James).
I'll just check the other records to see whether I have anything
It appears it was Joseph who registered my grandmother's birth.
Birth date of the Joseph Twigg who's parents were William and Mary is 6th August 1882, Parkgate, Frizington.
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Name J H Balmer
Gender Male
Departure Age 46
Birth Date abt 1873
Departure Date 31 Jul 1919
Departure Port England
Ship Name Gloucestershire
Shipping Line Bibby Line
Search Ship Database
Destination Port Rangoon, Burma
Master E Robin
Isn't that where James died in 1921?
Correct, it was yes.
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This could possibly be Joseph, occupation is given as mining. ???
Name Mr J F Balmer
Gender Male
Departure Age 32
Birth Date abt 1883
Departure Date 22 Sep 1915
Departure Port England
Ship Name Apapa
Shipping Line African Steamship Co
Search Ship Database
Search for the Apapa in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Destination Port Lagos, Nigeria
Master J C Hannay
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Are the names "Anthony" or "Claude" family names from Elizabeth's family?
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Are the names "Anthony" or "Claude" family names from Elizabeth's family?
I'm not sure where the name Anthony comes from, certainly not aware of it in Elizabeth's family.
However Claude, well that's the middle name of Elizabeth's husband Victor and I believe she was trying to do her best to convince Victor that it was his son (which I believe 99% that it wasn't and that it was Joseph's). Anthony was given the surname Weeden at birth, however this was quickly changed to Twigg-Balmer (in 1921 census he is a TB) and then later Brent when she married Henry.
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Thank you for the info.
So Joseph was still in England in early 1919.
Could he have already become employed by the Bisichi Tin Company (Nigeria) in 1915? :-\
Seems strange, he had only just deserted from the army! Wouldn't he be a wanted man? Perhaps it would get him away for a time!
Then there is his relationship with Elizabeth (presumably they met in Aylesbury?) and the move to London.
The timeline is getting very complicated!
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Thank you for the info.
So Joseph was still in England in early 1919.
Could he have already become employed by the Bisichi Tin Company (Nigeria) in 1915? :-\
Seems strange, he had only just deserted from the army! Wouldn't he be a wanted man? Perhaps it would get him away for a time!
Then there is his relationship with Elizabeth (presumably they met in Aylesbury?) and the move to London.
The timeline is getting very complicated!
Yes, the fact he registered the birth would mean he was (thanks for getting me to double check that to confirm 👍🏻).
I have actually reached out to some people in Nigeria with history of Bisichi Mines and asked if they have any info. I have also ordered a book on the history of the Bisichi Mines and also emailed the company (although I know it's not the same original company I thought they might have historical documents etc).
Elizabeth's divorce papers state 'On 9th September 1916 Elizabeth went to live with Joseph at 46 Canonbury Square London and stayed there with him until and beyond the date of Victor's petition. They occupied the same bedroom and passed under the names of Mr and Mrs Balmer and that they left on 5th November 1916.'
I'm guessing they met in Aylesbury yesterday. Elizabeth was living in Thanet with her husband (who was in the army) and young child.
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Yes, the fact he registered the birth would mean he was (thanks for getting me to double check that to confirm 👍🏻).
'On 9th September 1916 Elizabeth went to live with Joseph at 46 Canonbury Square London and stayed there with him until and beyond the date of Victor's petition. They occupied the same bedroom and passed under the names of Mr and Mrs Balmer and that they left on 5th November 1916.'
Where was he (for 1 year) between deserting the military and Sept 1916 when the two started living together as a couple.
I find it odd that he didn't get arrested by the military police after he deserted. If he had stayed around SE England, it seems that would have been probable. Perhaps he changed his name and hid that way?
Have you looked to see who was the owner of 46 Canonbury Square? Any connection to either person?
It seems to have been a boarding house in 1911.
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I had an interesting reply from Bisichi this afternoon.
"It appears he was involved in a failed prospecting mission to Malaya for Tin on behalf of the company in 1919 and his engagement then subsequently ended."
The attachment told a slightly more detailed version (obviously he was just being polite ;D).
"At the instigation of Waters of NNT an expedition for the joint account of NNT and Bisichi was sent to Malaya in 1919 to search for tin. An account was opened with the Hongkong & Shanghai Bank, and Messrs A E Thomas and J T Balmer were despatched with the necessary prospecting equipment. The expedition was a fiasco and Thomas and Balmer were ordered home and not re-engaged. Peterson Simons & Co who had offices in London and Penang, were engaged to clear up the mess and dispose of the equipment, which took until 1923 to complete."
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Yes, the fact he registered the birth would mean he was (thanks for getting me to double check that to confirm 👍🏻).
'On 9th September 1916 Elizabeth went to live with Joseph at 46 Canonbury Square London and stayed there with him until and beyond the date of Victor's petition. They occupied the same bedroom and passed under the names of Mr and Mrs Balmer and that they left on 5th November 1916.'
Where was he (for 1 year) between deserting the military and Sept 1916 when the two started living together as a couple.
I find it odd that he didn't get arrested by the military police after he deserted. If he had stayed around SE England, it seems that would have been probable. Perhaps he changed his name and hid that way?
Have you looked to see who was the owner of 46 Canonbury Square? Any connection to either person?
It seems to have been a boarding house in 1911.
I've just read through the divorce papers again and they state "during the months of January, February, March, April, may and June 1915 that Elizabeth commited adultery with Joseph at The Old House, Aylesbury.
That during the months of August, September and October 1916 frequently visited Elizabeth and is thought to have commited adultery."
Does that imply that between June 1915 and August 1916 he wasn't in England?
Yes it is very strange that he wasn't arrested or wanted by the military police. During this period of time Victor had filed for divorce and Joseph was a co-respondent - perhaps I should relook at any responses from him in the notes and the date on them.
Apart from the census returns what is the best way to look into ownership of property please?
Thanks 🙏🏻
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I had an interesting reply from Bisichi this afternoon.
"It appears he was involved in a failed prospecting mission to Malaya for Tin on behalf of the company in 1919 and his engagement then subsequently ended."
The attachment told a slightly more detailed version (obviously he was just being polite ;D).
"At the instigation of Waters of NNT an expedition for the joint account of NNT and Bisichi was sent to Malaya in 1919 to search for tin. An account was opened with the Hongkong & Shanghai Bank, and Messrs A E Thomas and J T Balmer were despatched with the necessary prospecting equipment. The expedition was a fiasco and Thomas and Balmer were ordered home and not re-engaged. Peterson Simons & Co who had offices in London and Penang, were engaged to clear up the mess and dispose of the equipment, which took until 1923 to complete."
Wow, what an amazing response from Bisichi to your query. Well done for asking them, and to the person who looked that up for you.
The story does sound rather comical (if you don't mind me saying!)
I wonder when exactly Joseph's services were dispensed with. I had begun to think that James who died in Rangoon in 1921 might actually have been Joseph, as you speculated in Reply #22.
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I had an interesting reply from Bisichi this afternoon.
"It appears he was involved in a failed prospecting mission to Malaya for Tin on behalf of the company in 1919 and his engagement then subsequently ended."
The attachment told a slightly more detailed version (obviously he was just being polite ;D).
"At the instigation of Waters of NNT an expedition for the joint account of NNT and Bisichi was sent to Malaya in 1919 to search for tin. An account was opened with the Hongkong & Shanghai Bank, and Messrs A E Thomas and J T Balmer were despatched with the necessary prospecting equipment. The expedition was a fiasco and Thomas and Balmer were ordered home and not re-engaged. Peterson Simons & Co who had offices in London and Penang, were engaged to clear up the mess and dispose of the equipment, which took until 1923 to complete."
Wow, what an amazing response from Bisichi to your query. Well done for asking them, and to the person who looked that up for you.
The story does sound rather comical (if you don't mind me saying!)
I wonder when exactly Joseph's services were dispensed with. I had begun to think that James who died in Rangoon in 1921 might actually have been Joseph, as you speculated in Reply #22.
Isn't it? To be honest I wasn't expecting to hear back from them. Funnily enough the book I ordered on the history of Bisichi Mines arrived today too and that's where his source came from. I have also asked some Nigerian folk who know a lot about the Bisichi history if they can find out anything. Will obviously report back here if anything is uncovered.
The newspaper article mentioning Bisichi was dated around Jun 1920 I believe which was the one on here that mentioned the solicitors etc. So we know in 1920 that Joseph was still alive.
I think as there is very little on James Twigg-Balmer that's what is making me think are they the same person? Would also fit with Elizabeth being a widow by 1921.
I am looking back over my old research of the Joseph Twigg family (William and Mary Twigg's family) to see if there's anything more there that I missed the first time.
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I agree, what a helpful lot at Bisichi.
It does make you wonder whether James and Joseph are one and the same, except Joseph says his next of kin is James in SA. I think Joseph is in China and James in SA around the same time.
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I am sure this will have been posted in this long thread, but if this is one or other of the brothers, it is likely to be James going to Nigeria, as the birth is abt 1873, unless it is Joseph fibbing about his age.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:68GP-WTG2?lang=en
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I am sure this will have been posted in this long thread, but if this is one or other of the brothers, it is likely to be James going to Nigeria, as the birth is abt 1873, unless it is Joseph fibbing about his age.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:68GP-WTG2?lang=en
This could be James as it only states J T Balmer and mining as the occupation. However....
There is a journey from Africa to England later in 1917 which is definitely Joseph (he is named and address matches the one he shares with Elizabeth). Year of birth is given as 1872.
Joseph also lies about his age on the Freemason records, unless the service papers are where he is lying about his age.
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I had an interesting reply from Bisichi this afternoon.
..... Messrs A E Thomas and J T Balmer were despatched with the necessary prospecting equipment. The expedition was a fiasco and Thomas and Balmer were ordered home and not re-engaged.....
Just to add some context...
"A E thomas" was Albert Ernest Thomas d.25-May-1923 Barmouth. He was a well respected and international mining engineer coming from a Cornish mining family. His Brother, Father and Grandfather had all been the managers/captains of Dolcoath copper/tin mine for some 50 years.
Joseph Twigg Balmer on the other hand (according to the only evidence so far) seems to have taken up a mining career on the boat trip from Shanghai before signing up. Customs clerk to Mining engineer seems a bit far fetched to me but he must have impressed someone after his desertion.
Edit: I've just seen the 1908 Freemasonry register give his profession as "mining engineer".
A E Thomas was also a Freemason, another of his brothers was master of Hayle lodge.
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A E THOMAS
https://nmrs.org.uk/resources/obituaries-of-members/obituaries-of-members-names-beginning-with-t/albert-ernest-thomas/
Added - Did A E Thomas and Joseph meet in some South African mine?
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Joseph also lies about his age on the Freemason records, unless the service papers are where he is lying about his age.
If he was really born in 1872/3 he would have been too old to join up. I believe the age limit was 38 in 1914. Might be why he wasn't detained after his desertion and appears to have travelled freely during the war years. I wonder if he needed to get back to the UK (or away from China) and a sponsored ticket back was an easy option.
Doesn't explain the freemasonry discrepancy though.
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Waltair Lodge, Visakhapatnam
Joseph Twigg Balmer resigned 10.7.1911
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Ancestry don't seem to have all of Islington for 1918 in the London electoral registers :(
Joseph is not listed at West Lodge, Barnsbury Square in the spring 1919 register.
George and Georgina Botten in the Division 1 voters
In Division 2 were Douglas Alison, Robert Younie, Charles Cowden and Edward Young.
Alison, Younie and Young were absent (military) voters.
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Waltair Lodge, Visakhapatnam
Joseph Twigg Balmer resigned 10.7.1911
Thanks, I'll add this to my notes and time line 👍🏻
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I had an interesting reply from Bisichi this afternoon.
..... Messrs A E Thomas and J T Balmer were despatched with the necessary prospecting equipment. The expedition was a fiasco and Thomas and Balmer were ordered home and not re-engaged.....
Just to add some context...
"A E thomas" was Albert Ernest Thomas d.25-May-1923 Barmouth. He was a well respected and international mining engineer coming from a Cornish mining family. His Brother, Father and Grandfather had all been the managers/captains of Dolcoath copper/tin mine for some 50 years.
Joseph Twigg Balmer on the other hand (according to the only evidence so far) seems to have taken up a mining career on the boat trip from Shanghai before signing up. Customs clerk to Mining engineer seems a bit far fetched to me but he must have impressed someone after his desertion.
Edit: I've just seen the 1908 Freemasonry register give his profession as "mining engineer".
A E Thomas was also a Freemason, another of his brothers was master of Hayle lodge.
Thanks for the information 🙂
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Hi all, I just wanted to thank everyone for their help here. I appreciate it all and have been able to build up more a picture of Joseph's life in early 1900s.
One last request if I may to those that have been kind enough to help...
Thoughts on or questions to look for answers as my next step please...
Thanks so much 👍🏻😊