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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: slewis on Tuesday 28 January 25 16:03 GMT (UK)
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Hi I have been trying to find a marriage for Charles Woolford born 1794 in Yattendon, Berkshire, England, he married Bridget Duffy born 1798 Ireland possibly between 1822 and 1828 I have tried the UK with no luck.
They had 4 children possibly 5 all born in Austrailia
James 1824 Hobart ?
Thomas 1828 Sydney
Charles 1831
Joseph 1833 Sydney
Mary Ann 1837 Sydney
Im not sure about James,
I believe Thomas moved to New Zealand but the rest of the family stayed in Austrailia
If any one can find a marriage for Charles and Bridget i would be ever so greatfull
kind regards Sue
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Searching NSW family history index, births, on other than exact key Woolford i.e W*ord, father Charles, returns possible alternate spellings or mistranscriptions.
As you say, no sign marriage, woolford or alternative.
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Thank you so much for having a look for me I really appreciate it
Kind regards Sue
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the baptism of James WOLFORD on 23 Nov 1824 (born 1 Nov 1824) at Hobart with parents Charles and Bridget says they were married in Ireland.
https://libraries.tas.gov.au/Digital/RGD32-1-1/RGD32-1-1-P089
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maddys52 thank you so much for this information I really do appreciate your help
Kind regards Sue
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You possibly already have this information:
As the children in NSW were born in Port Macquarie, I'm assuming that this is Charles WOOLFORD mentioned in the Index to Colonial Secretaries Letters in 1832 at Port Macquarie. He is from the 39th Regiment (discharged), and with his wife they were appointed as watch house keeper and matron.
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/INDEX2874834
From what I can see, the 39th regiment were in Tasmania from at least Dec 1824. You can see paylists and other details here:
https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-728664549/findingaid?digitised=y
Others more knowledgeable about military history may be able to advise, however this wikipedia article also mentions the 39th regiment were in Ireland after 1818.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/39th_(Dorsetshire)_Regiment_of_Foot
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There is another thread on Rchat dated 5 Jan 2019 which is 4 pages long and has a lot of detail about Charles Woolford serving in Ireland, Co Cork and perhaps marrying Bridget Duffy there.
Sorry but not sure how to link to this thread, perhaps someone else could help or the Moderator.
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Oh thank you I will definitely have a look at it you ladies have been so kind to help me .
Kind regards Sue
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There is another thread on Rchat dated 5 Jan 2019 which is 4 pages long and has a lot of detail about Charles Woolford serving in Ireland, Co Cork and perhaps marrying Bridget Duffy there.
Sorry but not sure how to link to this thread, perhaps someone else could help or the Moderator.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806050.0
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Wayne thank you so much for that info
Kind regards Sue
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hi all I have just been looking at the post from 2019 the Charles R Woolford is not mine but the Charles who was in the 3rd regiment of foot is my charles but now I am confused the very last post says
so while I was there today researching my crazy (no, literally crazy) NSW relatives I had a look at the WOOLFORD’s. So the Charles who died at Tarban Creek Asylum in 1846 WAS the husband of Bridget. He was Fisherman who came free. He had 9 children and was committed by a James WOOLFORD! I wonder if he was an older son?!?! He fell of a ladder and had a had injury and ‘nek minut’...
was he in the army then a Fisherman ? now not sure if I have the right Charles when it says he came Free dose that mean Free passage ???
Kind regards Sue
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I noticed yesterday there were at least 2 Charles WOOLFORD's in NSW, but as I said thought yours was more likely to be the military man.
"came free" usually means he was not a convict.
It is interesting that presumably bitzar means his occupation when admitted to the Tarban Creek Asylum (Gladesville Mental Hospital) was fisherman. What occupation does it have on his children's birth certificates?
It might be an idea to pm bitzar to see if he took a copy of the file he viewed at the NSW Archives.
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It might be worth asking about the Charles/Bridget marriage on the Ireland section of Rootschat and with a link to this thread.
I've had wonderful help from people there regarding my Irish ancestors.
Judith
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You may already have this attestation record, from
Public Record Office UK, Regimental Registers of Service, 1756-1900 for Charles Woolford.
1st Foot Soldiers, 4th Battalion
Charles Woolford,
5ft 4 1/2 inches at enlistment, 5ft 5 at age 24,
Age at enlistment 18, sallow complexion, grey eyes, brown hair
Born Berkshire, Yattendon,
Attestation at Newbury, 6 August 1813 for unlimited service
Transferred: 25 October 1827, 39th Regiment
Deceased 13 July 1827, Bengal
This obviously raises questions, as well as being in itself nonsensical as the record gives the transfer date as after his death!
There is a private tree on Ancestry which apparently has some private photos relating to Charles Woodford.
Judith
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Maddys52 and Judith thank you for this information you have been a great help I will see if I can make contact with the person on ancestry and bitzar .
Thanks again for your help
Kind regards Sue
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You may already have this attestation record, from
Public Record Office UK, Regimental Registers of Service, 1756-1900 for Charles Woolford.
1st Foot Soldiers, 4th Battalion
Charles Woolford,
5ft 4 1/2 inches at enlistment, 5ft 5 at age 24,
Age at enlistment 18, sallow complexion, grey eyes, brown hair
Born Berkshire, Yattendon,
Attestation at Newbury, 6 August 1813 for unlimited service
Transferred: 25 October 1827, 39th Regiment
Deceased 13 July 1827, Bengal
This obviously raises questions, as well as being in itself nonsensical as the record gives the transfer date as after his death!
There is a private tree on Ancestry which apparently has some private photos relating to Charles Woodford.
Judith
On the original image, the column for "Deceased" simply has dittos from the entry above. Others that have also transferred regiments also simply have a ditto in "Deceased". There are also dittos for the columns regarding promotions, desertion and discharge. My reading of the record doesn't necessarily mean that the person in deceased, but simply transferred. Hope that makes sense. :D
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Thanks Judith you have been a great help
Kind regards Sue
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I noticed yesterday there were at least 2 Charles WOOLFORD's in NSW, but as I said thought yours was more likely to be the military man.
"came free" usually means he was not a convict.
It is interesting that presumably bitzar means his occupation when admitted to the Tarban Creek Asylum (Gladesville Mental Hospital) was fisherman. What occupation does it have on his children's birth certificates?
It might be an idea to pm bitzar to see if he took a copy of the file he viewed at the NSW Archives.
I did take a few sneaky pics of the records. Nowhere does it say he was a military man, only a fisherman of George St, Sydney. He was the husband of Bridget (no MS), father of nine (I have found 6), and admitted by a James Woolford and a Joshua/Joseph Valentine. He came 'free' but the ship is not known!
bitzar.
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Hi bitzar
Thank you so much for this information it’s a great help, I’ll see if I can find the other Charles Woolford death.
Kind regards Sue
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I’ll see if I can find the other Charles Woolford death.
There is a Charles Robert WOOLFORD died 23 September 1893 at Tingha.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/113726563?searchTerm=%22%20woolford%22
His death registration:
7411/1893 at Inverell, father Robert (mother unknown).
He died at his daughter's home - Amelia Elizabeth WOOLFORD married William LITCHFIELD in 1864. Another daughter, Louise Victoria married William WRIGHT - a detailed obit for Louise says that she was born in Liverpool, England and her parents (Charles and Maria) came to Australia c1839.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/185885904
Charles Robert WOOLFORD (grocer) married Maria OSBORNE 10 May 1835 at Holy Trinity, Liverpool.
So definitely not yours. :D
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There is a Charles Robert WOOLFORD died 23 September 1893 at Tingha.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/113726563?searchTerm=%22%20woolford%22
His death registration:
7411/1893 at Inverell, father Robert (mother unknown).
He died at his daughter's home - Amelia Elizabeth WOOLFORD married William LITCHFIELD in 1864. Another daughter, Louise Victoria married William WRIGHT - a detailed obit for Louise says that she was born in Liverpool, England and her parents (Charles and Maria) came to Australia c1839.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/185885904
Charles Robert WOOLFORD (grocer) married Maria OSBORNE 10 May 1835 at Holy Trinity, Liverpool.
So definitely not yours. :D
That Charles Woolford arrived in I think 1838 per Jessie with wife and 2 children. Children were registered to Charles Robert and Maria after 1839 in NSW. He was a grocer, but also of George St.
Back to Charles Woolford and Maria. When Charles was admitted to Tarban Creek in 1846, correspondence was to go to Mr Woolford via Mr Wharton, Brickfield Hill. Brickfield Hill referred to the area of Sydney between Town Hall and Central Station, so basically George St. Was Mr Woolford, James Woolford who admitted Charles and was James his son?
bitzar.
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Of possible interest - looking at the City of Sydney Archives Assessment Books:
In 1845 there is a Chas WOOLFORD on Cambridge St (no. 174), also a Charles R WOOLFORD on Cumberland St (no. 327).
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tmn/
So possibly "your" Charles WOOLFORD on Cambridge St before being admitted to Tarban Creek?
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Hi and thank you both for the info yes maddys52 I did see that and think the same, I still think the Charles at Tarban Creek is my Charles and he could have had a son James as I did find a birth for a James Woolford parents Charles and Bridget in Hobart and Charles was in Hobart at that time in 1824
It’s the fact Tarban had him down as a fisherman but he may have done that after he left the army, what do you think ??
Kind regards Sue
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Bitzar (Reply #17)gave this information:
I did take a few sneaky pics of the records. Nowhere does it say he was a military man, only a fisherman of George St, Sydney. He was the husband of Bridget (no MS), father of nine (I have found 6), and admitted by a James Woolford and a Joshua/Joseph Valentine. He came 'free' but the ship is not known!
Is this record digitised somewhere? Sorry I might have missed it.
The following information is possibly of no help whatsoever but I had a quick look for the Joshua Valentine mentioned and his death certificate of 1875 gives his occupation as "agent fishmonger" and his address as 70 Harrington St. Obviously this is 30 years after the death of Charles, but at least gives a slight connection to the occupation of 'fisherman' attributed to Charles.
Judith
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I can't readily find 9 children either, however as I mentioned earlier, it would be interesting to see what occupation is given on the children's birth records - most likely to be baptisms as this is before civil registration. There are a couple in Port Macquarie, where it appears Charles was originally sent as Watch House Keeper. Mary A WOOLFORD is born 1837 and the baptism is back in Sydney at St Mary's (Roman Catholic). Do you have this record?
Or maybe the marriage records of any of his children might say father's occupation - do you have any of these?
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Hi maddys52 and Judith
Thank you for getting back to me ive been looking at it all again, most of the information we have found leads me to believe my Charles was the military man born 1794 Yattendon, Berkshire, England
Charles WOOLFORD originally was a Private enlisted 16 Sept 1813, into Company of the 3rd regiment of foot, then discharged after the end of the Napoleonic wars … then re enlistedland and came to NSW with the 3rd Regiment (who relieved the 48th) so he had re- enlisted for 14 years at Buttevant, Cork, in Ireland in March 1822. Arrived in Sydney NSW 25 December 1822, with the 3rd Reg, Company 10 to Liverpool NSW 25 September 1823
Hobart VDL March 1824, Bathurst NSW Sept 1826 to Oct 1827
in 1827, he transferred into the 39th Regiment when that regiment relieved the 3rd. Then sent as garrison to Emu Plains NSW March 1828 then Parramatta August 1828 then Port Macquarie September 1828, and discharged with gratuity 30 June 1832. Cox's River NSW March 1826
Bridget was born in Ireland not sure if he met her there or in Australia.
I have 4 children for them
Thomas born 1828 Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Charles W born 1831 Port Macquarie, New South Wales
Joseph born 1833 Port Macquarie, New South Wales
Mary Ann born 1837 Sydney, New South Wales,
I didnt have a James born 1824 in Hobart I am now guessing he is not one of my Charles, children he must belong to the Charles in Tarban Creek
As you can see I am totally confused LOL
Kind regards Sue
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I think Charles WOOLFORD of the 3rd regiment married Bridget in Ireland. They arrived in Hobart where son James was born 1 November 1824 (his baptism record says his parents were married in Ireland). They then travelled to Bathurst, NSW.
There is a possible child baptised in Kelso, Bathurst:
William WOOLFRED (468/1826 V1826468 10) Cof E Abercrombie district, Bathurst
William WOOLFRED (7703/1826 V18267703 1C) Cof E Kelso (a suburb of Bathurst)
Not sure why there are the 2 baptism records.
After transferring to the 39th regiment, if they have more children in Emu Plains and Parramatta, I can't see them easily. Though son Thomas WOODFORD is baptised in 1828 at St Mary's Sydney (RC).
When they are moved to Port Macquarie, Charles leaves the army in 1832 and is appointed Watch House Keeper, where son Charles WALFORD is baptised in 1831 and Joseph WALFORD in 1833.
I'm assuming they move back to Sydney some time after this and have daughter Mary Ann WOOLFORD baptised at St Mary's Sydney in 1837.
(You can see that spelling is very fluid.)
Charles dies in 1846 at Tarban Creek Asylum (Gladesville, Sydney). His wife is Bridget, so I'm pretty sure he is the same man, even though is occupation is now fisherman.
If all these children are correct, it's still only 6, not 9 as on the record bitzar found. However, there are gaps when other children could have been born. :-\
Of course, this is just speculation unless you see the actual records.
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Hi maddys52
Thank you so much for this you are a absolute star, I really do appreciate all your help, you have made it make more sense so again thank you
Kind regards a very happy Sue
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You could buy the death certificates for Charles and/or Bridget which would have asked for information re their marriage. However the information given is only what the informant knows. It seems that both of them died in institutions which often means that the informant is an official of the institution and may know very little or nothing of their past so it's a bit of a lottery! You may also find the names and birthdates of any children not yet found
This is the information asked for:
Name of deceased
Date & place of death
Sex, age & occupation of deceased
Cause of death & length of illness
Medical Attendant and when last seen
Father's name & occupation; Mother's maiden name
Informant - the accuracy of every registration depends on this person!
Children of deceased (usually names & ages are listed, but sometimes only the number of males/females is listed)
Date & place of burial, and Undertaker
Minister, religion, and names of witnesses
Birthplace and length of time in NSW (if applicable)
Marriage place, age at marriage, and Spouse name
Date & place of Registration
It's cheaper to use a transcription agent - 3 are listed on the NSW Family History service https://www.nsw.gov.au/family-and-relationships/family-history-search/search-guide#toc-additional-resources Cost is roughly $20 for a full transcription.
Judith
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Unfortunately Charles died before civil registration began in 1856, but Bridget's death certificate - presumably the one in 1864 - may contain the above information, if the informant knew, as Judith said. On the index it doesn't have parents' names and instead "aged 76, died Sydney", which often means that there may not be much information on the certificate, however you won't know unless you buy the certificate.
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Thank you both for this info it’s all so different from the UK I will definitely think about sending for one or the other.
Thank you açai for your time and help
Kind regards Sue
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Out of curiosity, I just bought the 1855 MC for Mary Ann Woolford... she didn't know her mother's maiden name! :o She did know her father was a fish monger though!
An online tree has her probable brother Thomas also marrying in Victoria but seeing that this isn't actually my family I don't think I'll be buying that cert and taking the risk.
bitzar.
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Hi bitzar
Thank you for getting back to me with this information.
Kind regards Sue
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Hi bitzar
Thank you for getting back to me with this information.
Kind regards Sue
Hi Sue
FYI, My 1st cousin 3x removed married the grandson of Mary Ann Woolford. I only started following this family because I have an interest in Chinese families on The Victorian Goldfields.
bitzar.
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That's great that you bought the marriage certificate bitzar, especially confirming Charles' occupation as fishmonger. :D