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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Aks on Monday 27 January 25 17:53 GMT (UK)
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I have an ancestor (well almost, I'm descended from his adopted daughter) called Martin Farnell, who at one point in his life was the High Sheriff of Derbyshire. I believe he lived in Coton-in-the-Elms in Derbyshire, but I think he was born in Appleby Magna, Leicestershire, in 1747. According to the documents I have found, he was married in Melbourne, Derbyshire, in 1805, and died in Clifton Campville, Staffordshire, in 1815. However, his will says "I Martin Farnell of Four Oaks in the parish of Sutton Coldfield in the County of Warwick"! I also think he was involved in the running of a bank in Ashby-de-la-Zouch in Leicestershire. So many counties! (At least, these seem to be the current counties: whether they were then, I don't know.)
It's been difficult finding documents about him, especially as I live in Luxembourg, however I expect to be in the Leicester area next summer. I was wondering if anyone could advise me as to which records office (or other facility) I might expect to find more information about him if I were to visit there in person. I have not been able to find any documents linking him to this bank and I'm also not entirely sure for his birth, so presumably the best place to go would be the Leicestershire records office?
Many thanks,
Alan
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From a very quick search for him, there appear to be three people named Martin Farnell associated with Ashby de la Zouch. The first died in January 1809 and was buried in Ashby de la Zouch. The second was the man you mention who died and was buried at St Andrew's church Clifton Campville, although the burial register notes his address was Four Oaks near Sutton Colefield, but formerly of Coton in the Elms, Derbyshire. All the London Gazette and press announcements for him being appointed one of the three Sherriffs for Derbyshire in 1787, 1788 and 1789 report his address as Coton in the Elms. The third Martin Farnell was baptised at Ashby de la Zouch in July 1792.
Martin Farnell formerly of Ashby de la Zouch but then living at Coton on the Elms, banker, was declared bankrupt in 1805. See image below from the London Gazette of 30 March 1805
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That notice of bankruptcy was issued a few says after he got married. I wonder if there was any significance in that? He was in his fifties when he married and his wife was in her late thirties. Quite old if it was first marriage.
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There's a later report stating the date of bankruptcy was 9th March 1805. He married on 17 March 1805 but marriage licence was dated 4 Feb 1805. Unusually large gap.
He is described as a bachelor, farmer and of the parish of Lullington, Derbyshire. Both he and Frances Matthew are described as 21 years and upwards! Very much "upwards" if ages on burial records are correct or even close.
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Hi,
There are a number of documents held by Derbyshire Record Office, which name Martin Farnell.
He purchased the Lordship of the Manor of Cotton in the Elms in 1795, this is the connection
https://calmview.derbyshire.gov.uk/calmview/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Persons&id=DS%2fUK%2fM%2f3705&pos=1
This is connection to other documents in which he is named
https://calmview.derbyshire.gov.uk/calmview/Overview.aspx
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Searching on Farnell in the Derbyshire, comes up with a few other Farnells in association with Martin - Joseph Farnell, John Farnell and James Farnell jnr - brothers? cousins?
Also some Curzons (a Joseph Curzon was bondsman on his marriage licence)
Marriage ca 1775 between Nathaniel Curzon and Ann Farnell
John Curzon "Mortgage: Martin Farnell to Daniel Parker Coke: a messuage and lands in Coton in the Elms. W: Jno. Curzon"
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Found licence for marriage between Nathaniel Curzon and Ann Farnell on FindMyPast. He was 30, attorney at law, bachelor, of the parish of Breedon on the Hill, Leics, Ann was 21, spinster, of Overseal in the parish of Netherseal. Date of licence: 12 June 1775. Overseal quite close to Coton in the Elms and Lullington. Ann would be born about 1754.
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I have an ancestral line in this geographical area, where several counties meet, and yes, it can be vaguely frustrating to have to search in several places at once!
Melbourne and Ashby de la Zouch are only a few miles apart, but Ashby will be covered by the Leic records office (on the outskirts of Leicester) and Melbourne is covered by the Derbyshire office (at Matlock).
Looking at Martin's baptism I suspect the family roots were in Derbyshire/Warwickshire. The only baptism I can find that matches with his age at burial is the one is Appleby, and the parents were Joseph and Susanna. They had married in Susannah's parish of Austrey (Warwickshire), and the marriage licence gave Joseph's parish as Overseal (Derbyshire). A brief glance at the parish registers suggests that Joseph had a brother, Martin.
But in fact the surname appears frequently on the PRs in lots of villages around this area. I think that before you go any further, I would try to see if there's a copy of Martin's 1805 marriage licence at the Derbyshire record office, in the hope that it will tell you what his home parish was. If you put a request on the Derbyshire board you might find that someone is heading that way and can do a look up for you; failing that a phone call to the archives might work?
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That will only give you his parish at the time of marriage (where banns or licence were referred to).
It won't give you his parish of birth.
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Curzons of Breedon and Anne Farnell mentioned here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breedon_Hall
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That will only give you his parish at the time of marriage (where banns or licence were referred to).
It won't give you his parish of birth.
True, but if it says anywhere other than Melbourne, that might be useful information.
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There's a later report stating the date of bankruptcy was 9th March 1805. He married on 17 March 1805 but marriage licence was dated 4 Feb 1805. Unusually large gap.
He is described as a bachelor, farmer and of the parish of Lullington, Derbyshire. Both he and Frances Matthew are described as 21 years and upwards! Very much "upwards" if ages on burial records are correct or even close.
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Thank you Andy, Lizzie, Spendlove, Annie, KGarrad, and mckha489, and my apologies for the slow response. Thank you Annie for your understanding of the many counties predicament. :) I suppose if you take it logically there is no problem, but when I see all these different counties involved ...
I think it must be the marriage licence that I have and which Lizzie refers to. It says he is of the parish of Lullington, which I think corresponds to where he was living at the time, i.e. Coton-in-the-Elms, I believe.
I suppose I need to figure out what it is that I most want to find out about him. :-\
Annie, do you mean that one can also just ask the records office from a distance to look things up?
Many thanks,
Alan
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Alan- indeed I do! Although obviously they may well make a charge. Some seem to charge much more realistically than others who seem to think of a figure then quadruple it ;). It may well be cheaper than coming over from Luxembourg though :)
Here's the details for the Derbyshire record office
https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/leisure/record-office/contact/contact-the-record-office.aspx
Leicestershire:
http://www.recordoffice.org.uk/
I've used both these in the past and the staff have always been very helpful (though my queries have always been face to face). I'm afraid I don't know the Warwickshire office personally but here's their details:
https://heritage.warwickshire.gov.uk/county-record-office
Bear in mind that although traffic is often bad, the distances between all the places you've mentioned are not great and if you visit and base yourself centrally, it should be easy to get around them all if you have the use of a car.
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Hi,
If you intend visiting this year, most record offices allow you to photograph documents the cost is about £6 per day for this.
Possibly an easy way to see what each record office hold is to do the following using the link below:-
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Enter only the Surname - Farrell in the search box
Do not enter any dates
Click on box "Held By" and from drop down list select "other archives only"
You are now presented with a list of results. On the left hand side you can select date but more importantly which record office hold records in which Farnell is mentioned.
Suggest you select date 1700 - 1799, and Leicester. Click Refine.
You now have all documents held by Leicestershire, making a list of which you wish to examine
you can then make an appointment at this record office and pre-order the documents. This can then be repeated for Derbyshire etc.
Do you have access to either Ancestry or Findmypast?
Spendlove
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Thank you very much Annie and Spendlove for your precious advice. This is very useful. Indeed, it might be simpler to search for documents of interest on the National Archives website and then either order them in advance of a visit or indeed just ask them remotely for copies.
It is indeed curious that Martin Farnell's marriage and bankruptcy occurred at pretty much the same time. I think the questions I have, to which I may not find answers, are:
(1) Why did he marry Frances Matthews at the time of his bankruptcy, when he was about 58 years old and she was about 34, with an illegitimate daughter, Phoebe, born in 1796 (baptised in Lullington), who became my ancestor.
(2) According to his will, made in 1815, he left a certain amount of property, even though he was declared bankrupt in 1805. How did he come to still have all this property?
(3) How did he come to end up in Four Oaks in Sutton Coldfield, Warwickshire, and be buried (as far as I am aware) in Clifton Campville, Staffordshire?
Sorry, I am just trying to clarify my own questions here!
Thank you again for all of your help.
Yes, I have access to Ancestry but not Findmypast.
Best wishes,
Alan