RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: ry2an5 on Saturday 25 January 25 04:36 GMT (UK)
-
Hi all, I was just wondering if any of these surnames belong to the Gypsy, Romani(y), Traveller community.
Kidd
Pamment
Acland
Sherpin
Jackson
Cottage
Stock
Morley
Keane
Jenkins
Farmer
Bryan
-
What context do you have them in that makes you think they do?
-
Surnames of my extended relatives/ancestors. Trying to find out if any of my ancestors were Gypsies, Romanies or Travellers. We have been told conflicting information with some of our relatives saying we do have Gypsy blood and others saying no we don't.
None of my immediate family have been raised as Gypsies, but obviously I don't know about my ancestors.
Also, I have very little information about my father's side of the family who no longer speak to me. I don't know anything about my paternal grandfather other than his name David Bryan Senior. I would like to find out about his parents, but my paternal grandmother (married my dad's father) isn't helpful.
-
The connection may be many generations ago.
You need to work backwards doing your tree (include the siblings of your direct ancestors as they can sometimes provide useful clues) and if you find any of your wider family say for example in tents or caravans or with typical occupations such as hawker or travelling knife grinder on the Census then you can start looking at that wider family.
You might find it useful to read "My Ancestors were Gypsies" by Sharon Sillers Floate - a library may have a copy or be able to get one for you to borrow.
-
Thank you :)
On my mother's side, I've managed to trace back my great-great grandmother's grandparents who were -
Catherine Sherpin - born 1814 in Westminster, London; died 1875 in Kensington, London
John James Jackson - born 1819/20 in - St Mary's Church, Strand, London; died 1865 in Kensington London
Unfortunately, my father's side of the family only goes as far back as my grandfather who I don't even where he was born or his parent's names.
-
my father's side of the family only goes as far back as my grandfather who I don't even where he was born or his parent's names.
I'm not clear from what you've said, whether paternal grandfather is dead or alive.
If he's dead you can find out his age from his death registration. Then you can look for his birth on the BMDs - either on the GRO website or on FreeBMD.
You can also find the marriage of him and your paternal grandmother, the marriage cert should tell you the name and occupation of his father.
If he's dead and was alive in 1939 you should be able to find him on the 1939 Register.
-
There is a DBS born in Yorkshire, England, in 1936, who died in North Carolina in 2004
Is this your grandfather?
There is an obit in the Island Packet of 10 November 2004. I don’t have the necessary subscription to view that.
Some records on FamilySearch (free). https://www.familysearch.org/en/home/portal/
Need confirmation this is the right man before proceeding.
-
my father's side of the family only goes as far back as my grandfather who I don't even where he was born or his parent's names.
I'm not clear from what you've said, whether paternal grandfather is dead or alive.
If he's dead you can find out his age from his death registration. Then you can look for his birth on the BMDs - either on the GRO website or on FreeBMD.
You can also find the marriage of him and your paternal grandmother, the marriage cert should tell you the name and occupation of his father.
If he's dead and was alive in 1939 you should be able to find him on the 1939 Register.
I don't know whether he is dead or alive either, I have no contact with my dad's family anymore, not my choice, I have tried to reach to them.
-
There is a DBS born in Yorkshire, England, in 1936, who died in North Carolina in 2004
Is this your grandfather?
There is an obit in the Island a packet of 10 November 2004. I don’t have the necessary subscription to view that.
Some records on FamilySearch (free). https://www.familysearch.org/en/home/portal/
Need confirmation this is the right man before proceeding.
Hi, highly unlikely to be my grandfather. I don't think he would've died in North Carolina, America.
-
There is a 1934 Leeds birth with second name spelled Brian.
Can see, I think, his parents on the 1939, but two redacted entries.
So either not yet deceased or died in another country
So as Darnity said, you will need to get your grandparent’s marriage certificate.
If you are not sure of your grandmother’s previous surname look for your father’s birth in the freebmd indexes.
Hopefully not too common, and only one obvious marriage which you can then order from the GRO to age occupation & father’s name.
-
There is a 1934 Leeds birth with second name spelled Brian.
Can see, I think, his parents on the 1939, but two redacted entries.
So either not yet deceased or died in another country
So as Darnity said, you will need to get your grandparent’s marriage certificate.
If you are not sure of your grandmother’s previous surname look for your father’s birth in the freebmd indexes.
Hopefully not too common, and only one obvious marriage which you can then order from the GRO to age occupation & father’s name.
Thank you, I think we've got more chance of seeing pigs flying over a blue moon than getting their marriage certificate, my grandmother won't respond to me, neither will my paternal uncles or auntie.
-
You don’t need them to get it.
You should be able to work it out for yourself and then buy it as outlined.
I wonder if the 1934 one went by Brian rather than David.
Possible death in 1992 name not matching up with name on the 1939 register, hence still redacted
Is your father still alive? If not you could give us his name. If you don’t want to put it up here, send a pm. (The little green paper icon under the names on the left)
Ie. if he is still alive, don’t publish his name
-
I don't know anything about my paternal grandfather other than his name David Bryan Senior.
Is 'Senior' his actual surname or do you mean he was the older one of two and the surname is BRYAN?
Debra :)
-
On my mother's side, I've managed to trace back my great-great grandmother's grandparents who were -
Catherine Sherpin - born 1814 in Westminster, London; died 1875 in Kensington, London
John James Jackson - born 1819/20 in - St Mary's Church, Strand, London; died 1865 in Kensington London
Looking at the surnames you have posted I think you are a bit confused on the JACKSON side of your family.
Ada KIDD married Robert PAMMENT in 1894.
Ada was born in 1878, the daughter of George KIDD and Frances Caroline JACKSON who were married in 1864.
Frances Caroline was born in 1843 (registered as Caroline Frances), the daughter of John James JACKSON and Ann Harris HOLMES who were married in 1838. John is widowed by 1851, it looks like Ann most likely died in 1846 and was buried at St Giles. John remarried in 1860 to a 45 year old widow named Catherine LARNDER (maiden surname CRUSE, previously married to Robert LARDNER in 1829).
Who is 'Catherine Sherpin'?
Debra :)
-
I don't know anything about my paternal grandfather other than his name David Bryan Senior.
Is 'Senior' his actual surname or do you mean he was the older one of two and the surname is BRYAN?
Debra :)
I meant senior as he was the father of my dad and my dad was also called David Bryan. I believe his dad (my granddad) was called David Bryan - no idea of any middle names for my paternal grandfather.
-
On my mother's side, I've managed to trace back my great-great grandmother's grandparents who were -
Catherine Sherpin - born 1814 in Westminster, London; died 1875 in Kensington, London
John James Jackson - born 1819/20 in - St Mary's Church, Strand, London; died 1865 in Kensington London
Looking at the surnames you have posted I think you are a bit confused on the JACKSON side of your family.
Ada KIDD married Robert PAMMENT in 1894.
Ada was born in 1878, the daughter of George KIDD and Frances Caroline JACKSON who were married in 1864.
Frances Caroline was born in 1843 (registered as Caroline Frances), the daughter of John James JACKSON and Ann Harris HOLMES who were married in 1838. John is widowed by 1851, it looks like Ann most likely died in 1846 and was buried at St Giles. John remarried in 1860 to a 45 year old widow named Catherine LARNDER (maiden surname CRUSE, previously married to Robert LARDNER in 1829).
Who is 'Catherine Sherpin'?
Debra :)
Aw right, I found a Catherine Sherpin - born 1814 in Westminster, London; died 1875 in Kensington, London who was married to John Jackson.
I also found Frances Caroline Jackson - born 1847 in Strand, London; died 1884 in St. Pancras, London. I must've got muddled up at that stage of the tree ???
-
There is a London census St Giles in the Fields, Middlesex with a David Bryan Snr and Jnr. 1901 . Schedule 431 . Piece/Folio 149 . Page 69. The children are registered as Bryan and Brien with mmn Chapman. Mother Rose C Chapman.
-
There is a London census St Giles in the Fields, Middlesex with a David Bryan Snr and Jnr. 1901 . Schedule 431 . Piece/Folio 149 . Page 69. The children are registered as Bryan and Brien with mmn Chapman. Mother Rose C Chapman.
Thank you, I shall have a look.
-
I also found Frances Caroline Jackson - born 1847 in Strand, London; died 1884 in St. Pancras, London.
This is her death registration, she was aged 42.
KIDD, FRANCES CAROLINE
Age 42
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 84
Debra :)