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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Johnf04 on Friday 24 January 25 20:06 GMT (UK)
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On the 8th January 1893, at the Govan Poorhouse, Merryflatts, Helen QUIN gave birth to an illegitimate child, a son, who she named John. Helen's occupation was paper bag maker, and she registered the birth, making her mark, on March 10th at Govan.
In 1917, when John QUIN married, Helen is recorded as deceased.
I have not been able to find anything more about Helen. I emailed the Mitchell Library in Glasgow, who hold the Govan Poorhouse records, but they need an approximate date and place of birth for Helen, to search their records.
I have searched on Ancestry and Scotlands People, without finding information that I can link to Helen.
Where else can I look?
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Where is John in 1901 & 1911?
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Have you tried spelling variations?
Here, Isle of Man, the usual spelling is Quinn.
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Where did John Quin marry? Scotlands People have no 1917 marriage under Quin - only under Quinn
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Among the John QUIN(N)s in Scotland in 1901, I haven't found one I'm sure is him. I haven't looked in 1911.
I have searched for variants of both Helen and Quin.
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Have you seen question above re place of marriage
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John QUINN married Rosetta MCGOOGAN on 23rd May 1917, in Saltcoats, Ayrshire. Their son John, born in 1918, married one of my aunts.
I am aware of the surname variations.
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There are 2 marriages in Lanarkshire pre-1901 for a Helen Quin - if one is your Helen - then son John may be under her married name. However - if John's marriage cert shows her as Quin that may rule out that theory
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John's marriage shows Helen as "QUIN".
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Neither of the 2 Lanarkshire marriages have a son John living with them in 1901 so bang goes that theory🙄
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Have you considered this death:
QUIN
ELLEN
43
MONAGHAN
F
1909
646 / 2 / 1210
Govan
given Helen and Ellen are interchangeable in Scotland
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It's possible, Scotmum - this Ellen QUIN was single, a french polisher, and the death was reported by her sister, whose surname I can't read. On John QUINN's marriage, in 1917, his mother's occupation was paper bag maker.
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1911 Census
John Quin 18 Miner, Boarder Born Govan
Ellen Quin 14 , Boarder, Born Govan
Was he a miner later in life?
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Possible birth of the 1911 child, Ellen:
QUIN
ELLEN
F
1896
646 / 2 / 1036
Govan
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In 1921, John QUINN was a coal miner, living in Saltcoats, Ayrshire. On his marriage, in 1917, he was a dynamite worker.
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Thank you, Scotmum - that is a birth to Helen (called Ellen on this registration) at the Govan Poorhouse. She's a paper bag maker.
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Thank you, David - that looks like John.
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1891 census 55 Sandyfauld St Govan
Ellen Quin, 24, Born Ireland, French polisher
Head of house is Ann O’Neill 45 born Ireland, mill worker
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Thank you, Neale - Ellen is with the same landlady in 1901. I'm concerned, though, by the difference in occupation - french polisher in 1891 and 1901, but on the births of John (1893) and Ellen (1896) the mother's occupation is paper bag maker.
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1911 Census
John Quin 18 Miner, Boarder Born Govan
Ellen Quin 14 , Boarder, Born Govan
Was he a miner later in life?
Where are they living?
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Stevenston, Ayrshire.
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Can't see a 1901 census for John and his sister
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It's possible, Scotmum - this Ellen QUIN was single, a french polisher, and the death was reported by her sister, whose surname I can't read. On John QUINN's marriage, in 1917, his mother's occupation was paper bag maker.
What address/addresses are on this certificate? If you are able to, post a snippet of it showing the sister's details, and perhaps someone will be able to read the name.
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Attached is a snip of Ellen QUIN's death registration, showing addresses, and her sister's name.
I have replied to the Mitchell Library, with the birth details of this Ellen, to see if she can be linked to the two births at the Govan Poorhouse.
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The parents Terence Quin and Rose Monaghan married in 1849 Pomeroy, County Tyrone.
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Sister's name looks like Mary Galston
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Terence and Rose had a son Patrick in 1867
Name: Patrick Quin Date of Birth: 20-Jun-1867
Address: Pomeroy Parish/District: POMEROY
County TYRONE
Father: Terence Quin Mother: Rose Monaghan
Occupation: Illegible Muslin Agent
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Possible 1871 census
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Terance Quin Head Widower Male 50 1821 Commercial traveller Ireland
Mary Quin Daughter Unmarried Female 17 1854 General servt domestic Ireland
John Quin Son - Male 14 1857 Message boy Ireland
Rose Annie Quin Daughter - Female 12 1859 French polisher Ireland
Maggie Quin Daughter - Female 10 1861 Scholar Ireland
Ellen Quin Daughter - Female 8 1863 Scholar Ireland
Patrick Quin Son - Male 3 1868 - Ireland
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1877 Calton, there is a marriage for Mary Quin to John Gelston
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Rose Monaghan, wife of Terence Quin, died 1869 in Calton
Mary Galston, daughter of Terence Quin and Rose Monaghan died 1918 in Govan. Death registered by William Quin, nephew
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I'm still unsure whether the Ellen QUIN who is being documented by responders here (thank you!) is the same person as the Helen QUIN in my query.
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You may be able to use the info on this Ellen to check with Mitchell Library poor records. This should help prove or disprove a connection.
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Yes, I have replied to the Mitchell Library with Ellen's details.
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The 167 Renfrew Road address on the Ellen Quin death certificate, was the Govan Combination Parochial Buildings. These buildings would have had a Poorhouse, a hospital and an asylum, suggesting this Ellen too had been in need of assistance.
I wonder if it is significant that it then says 'former' address, rather than 'usual' address, as it suggests that she had totally left the former address prior to being at Renfrew Road, rather than was just temporarily away from it, or if this was just a standard stamped address/status used by Renfrew Road administration.
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Ellen may have made a claim for poor relief in 1893 and 1896 when she was pregnant as she wouldn't have been able to work. With a bit of luck her details may tie in with the child of Terence and Rose
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I heard from the Mitchell Library - this is the information they sent
Helen Quin, born (approx.) 1866 in Tyrone, Ireland, applied for relief in 1904 (ref: D-HEW16/4/9, 2686)
- Helen Quin, born (approx.) 1867 in Tyrone, Ireland, applied for relief in 1909 (ref: D-HEW17/632, 108459)
This matches the person whose death I found, in 1909, but does not provide a link to the births of the two children.
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FYI:
Saltcoats and Stevenston are immediately adjacent to each other. Stevenston, specifically "Ardeer", was home to Alfred Nobel's first dynamite manufacturing plant. This would link extremely well with your man's occupation (Dynamite Worker) and residence (Stevenston).
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My dad was from Stevenston, and a lot of my relations were dynamite workers.
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Ah, so you would have known that info. I'm originally from Saltcoats, now in W.A. for more than 50 years.