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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: nannyj on Wednesday 22 January 25 21:54 GMT (UK)
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I have her in
1818 baptism to John and Elizabeth in Clerkenwell.
1851 with George and daughter Jane (born France)
1861 with daughter Jane (born France), says she's a widow, with Eliza Goodwin b1832 Beaminster Dorset, her sister. So Goodwin must be her maiden name.
Haven't found her marriage but daughter Elizabeth Mary was born in Spain c1862. I have this daughter through the 1871 census when this daughter is living with her uncle Charles Lansbury in Romsey, Hants. I found a Charles b1814 there. He has a brother George b1816 Michelmersh, which is near Romsey.
I did find an Elizabeth Goodwin on 1841 in Spitalfields, with James Goodwin aged 50 and Rebecca Goodwin aged 2. Not sure yet if it's the same one.
Can anyone find the marriage between George and Elizabeth and does it have her father's name? I have George's parents as William Lansbury and Sarah Saunders, and I have George's siblings.
Can anyone find a baptism for their daughter Elizabeth Mary bc1862? Possibly abroad ... I don't have worldwide in ancestry anymore, so can't check there.
I think Elizabeth b1818's death is 1866 in Camberwell?? It would account for Elizabeth b1862 being with her uncle?
Also looking for George's death. Found a George in bermondsey on 1881 at workhouse. Says he was born 1812 Hampshire. Also found a death in Southwark in June quarter1888 aged 81. Another source has burial in Newham May 1888. So did he die before 1861 as his wife says or did they split up? I can only find two children born 11 years apart?
Any help for these dead ends/ unsures would be appreciated. Thanks 😊
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I'm not sure where I should've posted this?
George is from Hampshire but lived in rotherhithe, France and Spain.
Elizabeth senior was born in Middlesex, but lived in France, Spain and rotherhithe and possibly Camberwell.
Happy for a moderator to make suggestions or move my post.
I think I posted in Hampshire as Elizabeth junior and George are the direct ancestors and then realised that they weren't really the ones I was asking about.
Sorry! 🙄😱
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I have her (WHO?) in
1818 baptism to John and Elizabeth (WHO?) in Clerkenwell.
1851 (WHERE?) with George (WHO?) and daughter Jane (born France) WHEN?
1861 (WHERE?) with daughter Jane WHO? (born France), says she's a widow, with Eliza Goodwin b1832 Beaminster Dorset, her sister. So Goodwin must be her maiden name.
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Sorry, I have had difficulty understanding exactly who you are looking for and when and where they lived, etc. So, I don't know where to start.
Perhaps, ask 1 question at a time, but give more specific details.
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I have her (WHO?) in
1818 baptism to John and Elizabeth (WHO?) in Clerkenwell.
1851 (WHERE?) with George (WHO?) and daughter Jane (born France) WHEN?
1861 (WHERE?) with daughter Jane WHO? (born France), says she's a widow, with Eliza Goodwin b1832 Beaminster Dorset, her sister. So Goodwin must be her maiden name.
............
Sorry, I have had difficulty understanding exactly who you are looking for and when and where they lived, etc. So, I don't know where to start.
Perhaps, ask 1 question at a time, but give more specific details.
Apologies if it wasn't clear.
Q1 who ... Elizabeth in the title. I think Goodwin, as living with sister, Eliza Goodwin in 1861.
Q2 who ... I think Goodwin, as above, but a marriage to George Lansbury would confirm? I don't have the marriage, so I'm afraid, I can't give a place or date but am assuming it's pre 1851 before daughter Jane is born. I should have said that on 1851, he says he's a carpenter and so may be on the marriage record ... Always assuming Elizabeth and George actually married.
Q3 where ... Sorry, omitted that and it would have been helpful ... Rotherhithe, Surrey.
George who ... Lansbury, as in the post title. I made an assumption as I'd mentioned him in the title, and of course, we know what they say about assumptions 🤦 Jane's birth in France c1844.
Q4 where ... Rotherhithe. Jane, the daughter, is Lansbury, as before.
Hope this helps and apologies for the omitted info.
So the questions are:
Elizabeth b1818 and George Lansbury's marriage info (don't know where to post as I don't know where they married), and confirmation/agreement of deaths in 1866 Camberwell and 1888 Bermondsey respectively. I'm thinking maybe I should have posted on Surrey board instead of Hampshire, as as some of the info is from there??
Elizabeth b1862 birth in Spain. Is anyone able to find/confirm an overseas birth record? Bit of long shot I realise.
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Death
LANSBURY, ELIZABETH MARY Age 46
GRO Reference: 1863 D Quarter in ROTHERHITHE Volume 01D Page 405
Burial:- Elizabeth Mary Lansbury - 9 Dec 1863 Hackney (age recorded incorrectly as 66)
Address Seven Steps alley, Rotherhithe
(The family was living in Rotherhithe in 1861 census)
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Thank you.
That's great.
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Jane Lansbury emigrated to Australia, after marriage to Henry Mitchell. Her obit from Australia show she was born in Rouen France about 1846 when her father was working in building the railway from Paris to Rouen.
Perhaps you need to look in France for a marriage for George to Elizabeth Goodwin.
As the Goodwin family are not in the English census in 1841, the father John Goodwin may have also been working in France.
(There is a Anc tree with photos on the family)
Can anyone find the marriage between George and Mary and does it have her father's name? I have George's parents as William Lansbury and Sarah Saunders, and I have George's siblings.
You must mean a marriage between George and Elizabeth?
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Thank you.
That's additional info about the railway work and yes true about the possibility of a French marriage.
I'll try tomorrow on the 'other countries' board and message the family tree owner.
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Mary Elizabeth (not Elizabeth Mary) born 1861 / 62 in Spain cannot have been the daughter of Elizabeth Mary Lansbury.
She must have been an illegitimate daughter of George, who seems to be absent from the census after 1851.
Mary Elizabeth is living with her uncle Charles Lansbury in Hampshire in 1871
Mary Elizabeth married in 1880 Romsey to Albert Woodford. On the marriage certificate, her father is described as “Railway contractor”.
George was most likely working on the Bilbao-Tuleda railway line, Spain's first railway, built by the same British company as the Paris-Rouen line.
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Yes I think George Lansbury is in the Bermondsey workhouse in 1881
GRO death entry
LANSBURY, GEORGE age 71
GRO Reference: 1888 J Quarter in SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 160
Burial 29 May 1888 Newham London
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Elizabeth Mary Goodwin
Baptised 22 Oct 1818 St James, Clerkenwell
Parents John Goodwin (miner) and Elizabeth
Eliza Goodwin
Baptised 6 Jan 1832 Beaminster
Parents John Goodwin (excavator) and Elizabeth
Was John Goodwin working on the construction of Beaminster tunnel?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaminster_Tunnel
According to 1851 cenus
John Goodwin born 1777 Staffordshire
Wife Elizabeth born 1798 Middlesex
I can't see a census for them after that, and cannot see a death / burial in the Rotherhithe area.
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Jane Lansbury emigrated to Australia, after marriage to Henry Mitchell. Her obit from Australia show she was born in Rouen France about 1846 when her father was working in building the railway from Paris to Rouen.
Perhaps you need to look in France for a marriage for George to Elizabeth Goodwin.
As the Goodwin family are not in the English census in 1841, the father John Goodwin may have also been working in France.
(There is a Anc tree with photos on the family)
Can anyone find the marriage between George and Mary and does it have her father's name? I have George's parents as William Lansbury and Sarah Saunders, and I have George's siblings.
You must mean a marriage between George and Elizabeth?
Yes 🤦
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Thank you.
Think we're getting there. I don't have a baptism for Elizabeth Mary Lansbury b1861 as need to post on Spain board. Also don't have a marriage for her parents, but maybe this was in France, as you've suggested, or maybe they never actually married. I'll try France board. Long shot, but nothing ventured ...
However, do have this much ...
Elizabeth Mary Lansbury b1861/2 Spain ... I believe ... is the daughter of George Lansbury b1816 Romsey, Hampshire and Elizabeth Mary Goodwin b1818 Clerkenwell, Middlesex.
Some of this is educated assumption:
Elizabeth Lansbury born 1818 Clerkenwell, is on 1851 census in Rotherhithe with husband George Lansbury b1816 Romsey. They're with their daughter Jane bc1844 in Rouen. As mentioned on the other posts, it's likely that George Lansbury and John Goodwin, mentioned below, were working on the railways in Rouen France at the same time.
Elizabeth Mary (only called Mary on one census) Lansbury b1861/2 Spain, is with uncle Charles in Romsey in 1871. When I searched for Charles, and cross matched with those with a brother George, I found one b1814 in Michelmersh, which is near Romsey. They have two other brothers ... Joseph b1820. I can't find anything else on him. Henry b1826, who goes to Australia in 1850 as a single man and dies there according to other trees. So, and this is the educated assumption ... George is her father.
Elizabeth May Goodwin born 1818 Clerkenwell to John Goodwin (miner) who was born c1787 Staffordshire according to 1851 census when they were living in Rotherhithe. I have confirmed the Goodwin surname for Elizabeth b1818 with the fact it says on 1861 census Rotherhithe that her sister Eliza is living with her and was born 1832 Beaminster, Dorset. A baptism for Eliza Goodwin in Jan 1832 in Beaminster gives John Goodwin as her father and Elizabeth as her mother. John's wife given as Elizabeth, born c1798 Middlesex on 1851 census in Rotherhithe (obviously all back from France at this point.)
Interestingly, when the sister Eliza is born in 1832, John Goodwin, her father, says he is an excavator. When I googled it, it was basically someone who dug out the earth for things like roads and railways. A bit of a link with George Lansbury perhaps.
So, next request for a bit of help please 🙏
Can anyone find a marriage between John Goodwin bc1787 Staffordshire and Elizabeth bc1798 (don't have a surname) prior to their daughter's birth in 1818 in Clerkenwell? When I searched, I couldn't find any other children in Clerkenwell, although there is another John and Elizabeth Goodwin but he's a watchmaker, so unlikely the same one).
I tried to put the same colours for names to help, as there are too many Elizabeths and also an Eliza 🤦 but they didn't come out ... Sorry. I don't know how to do that now.
Thanks again.
Moderator comment: colour of text reverted to all black
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Trying to avoid confusion -
The mother born 1818 was Elizabeth Mary LANSBURY
The child born abt 1861 in Spain was Mary Elizabeth LANSBURY
As previously posted, the child born in Spain is unlikely to be the biological daughter of Elizabeth Mary.
Elizabeth Mary was in the 1861 census in Rotherhithe and she died there in 1863. It is unlikely she popped over to Spain in between to give birth at the age of 44.
Note – pale coloured text in your last post, is too pale to see clearly.
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Hi there. Thanks for replying so quickly.
Can I ask why you think the 1861 daughter is called Mary? On all the censuses, bar the 1871 with her uncle, she calls herself Elizabeth. Her marriage and death have her as Elizabeth M. 1911 & 1921 are Elizabeth Mary. Although they give themselves the surname Brown rather than Woodford in 1901, which is bizarre but I'm sure correct family as they are with two of their children, right dates and Jose is an unusual name plus Elizabeth gives her birth as Spain.
I only have the marriage registration rather than the cert unfortunately, so don't have her father's name. The tree is for a friend, so would rather not spend my own money on it really (although it would sort the father for definite).
Thanks for all you help and interest.
I see your point about the popping over to Spain bit though.
I didn't make it all orange ... At least not deliberately 🤦 and now it won't let me change it at all 🤦
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Maybe George and Elizabeth Mary had split up and that's why she says she's widowed in 1861?
I've sent off for the marriage cert of Elizabeth and Albert. At least then I'll know her father's name for sure 🙄 Estimated dispatch 5 Feb, so watch this space 🤔
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Certificate arrived this afternoon:
Elizabeth Mary Lansbury aged 19 of Latimer Street, Romsey
married Albert Woodford, aged 23, journeyman shoeing smith, of Hundred Romsey
on 21 June 1880 at Bell Street Baptist Chapel, Romsey.
Parents: George Lansbury deceased, railway contractor ... At least I've got him right 🙄
Henry Woodford, master shoeing smith.