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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: Anchor425 on Wednesday 22 January 25 06:25 GMT (UK)
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Is anyone an expert on the subject, as I am trying to confirm information found on popular sites such as wikitree and findagrave that a family that migrated to Nelson, New Zealand from England on "Clifford", arriving May 1842, included a half-sister of Queen Victoria, Maria Harriet Plumridge, nee Cross (cir 1797-1848).
According to Wikipedia, Prince Edward had mistresses before his marriage to Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (Marie Louise Victoire) in 1818 and he was in Halifax, Nova Scotia from 1794 to late 1798 (then 31 yrs old) when he returned to England until May 1802 when he went to Gibralta.
Maria may have been a house servant at Windsor and married James Plumridge a gardener, perhaps in 1827. They had a son James who died young and daughters Eliza (1830-1884) and Sarah Ann (1833-19110 who accompanied them to NZ. There is a photo online, said to be that of Sara Ann, but could be that of her mother, that bears a striking resemblance to Queen Victoria.
My primary interest is in the decendants of Eliza who married Heny McGee in 1849 in NZ.
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I can't help with who her parents were, however the 1841 census says "not" born in county. Many online trees say she was born at Windsor, Berkshire (where she was on the census), so trees appear wrong about that. :-\
HO107/37/6 pg 19
(James and daughters Eliza and Sarah Ann appear on page 13)
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I don't know if it helps but according to genealogics.org Edward's long term mistress was Julie de St Laurent of whom 'little is known' but 'she was rumoured to have had children by him' (They had been together since at least 1790 and broke up after Princess Charlotte died in 1817 and a new legal heir to the throne was required.)
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Maddy, As i read it in 1841, James is not born in county but the girls are. The ‘Y’ is not that well written but is different to the ‘N’.
Maria is not with the group in 1841.
Ignore this, i have found Maria and you mean that she is not born in county. So sorry! I should have read your post more closely.
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Maria is on the last page with "omitted" in the Place column. :)
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I can see some newspaper reports about supposedly illegitimate children of the Duke of Kent, however no mention of Maria CROSS/PLUMRIDGE.
eg:
Sunday, Feb. 5, 1837
Publication: The Age
which mentions Edwardina KENT who was brought up by Caroline, Princess of Wales, Edwardina was supposeely the illegimate daughter of the Duke of Kent and a Mrs CAREY.
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Have any of the descendants taken DNA tests? I’m not sure if it would tell you if there was a certain link because apart from Prince Philip I don’t think any of the royals have taken DNA tests but you may find matches with distant relatives.
As an aside, I don’t see any resemblance between the woman in the photo and Queen Victoria, apart from the fashions. Lovely photo though. :)
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I think the style of dress and hair style of the lady in the picture are more in keeping with the late 19th century.
Also photography was in its infancy in 1848 when Maria died and the quality and type of the image suggests that it was taken at much later date.
Nell
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Is this the marriage you mention
Married at St Mary, Lambeth 07 May 1827
James Plumridge
Maria Cross
Both of the Parish
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Thanks to all who have contributed so far.
maddys52 and heywood have provided evidence from the 1841 Census that James and Maria were not born in Berkshire, as the children were; Their origins remain unknown.
Garden genie has mentioned Prince Edward’s long-term partner, Madame de Saint-Laurent. Wikipedia informs us that Recent scholarship (particularly by Mollie Gillen, who was granted access to the Royal Archive at Windsor Castle) has established that no children were born of the 27-year relationship between Prince Edward and Madame de Saint-Laurent….. After the Duke's marriage in 1818 to the Dowager Princess of Leiningen, Madame de Saint-Laurent retreated to Paris where she lived out her days amongst her family and friends. The Prince may have had other mistresses during that relationship. The Australian historian, Mollie Gillen died in 1909, but her book The Prince and His Lady (1970) might be worth reading.
Maddys52 I was unable to find the article on Edwardina of Feb 1837 in The Age but I did find some in other Australian papers of June that year. A Mrs Carey is not mentioned but the article suggests that Edwarina may have been the child of the Princess of Wales and that George the Third gave the lady in question permission to wear the Royal Arms, and to assume, by courtesy, the title of Lady Edwardina Kent.
Ruskie I am not sure if DNA testing will be of much value as Maria is eight or so generations back and I have found finding connections with low percentage matches is a challenge, as many people don’t publish much in the way of a family tree. Furthermore, as you say, the royal descendants concerned may not have had DNA tests. Nevertheless, I will suggest to my granddaughter-in-law and her mother that they have (at least) autosomal DNA testing.
I agree the photo of Sarah is of good quality and in view of your comment as to not resembling QV, I asked my wife to have a look. She thinks there is some semblance and also even slightly (the nose) to Prince Edward.
Little Nell I agree, the hair style and dress is most likely 1850s to 1880s. Newer hair styles came in within that period but older people may have stuck with the older style. The photo is more likely to be Sarah’s than Maria’s.
rosie99 Surely, that is Maria’s marriage.
I have found a profile of Maria Cross (1803-1848) on geni.com containing the statement Records Blanked Out By Queen Victoria’s mother Cross. I will start a new discussion on that platform, seeking evidence of parentage.
Your help is much appreciated.
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Maddys52 I was unable to find the article on Edwardina of Feb 1837 in The Age but I did find some in other Australian papers of June that year. A Mrs Carey is not mentioned but the article suggests that Edwarina may have been the child of the Princess of Wales and that George the Third gave the lady in question permission to wear the Royal Arms, and to assume, by courtesy, the title of Lady Edwardina Kent.
I should have noted maybe that the publication was The Age (London). It is refuting the theory that Edwardina was the child of the Princess of Wales.
"... The true history of this affair is-the child in question was an illegitimate daughter of the late Duke of Kent by a Mrs. Carey, the wife of Captain Carey, who left her husband for the Duke when he quitted his government of Gibraltar. This woman was afterwards convicted of receiving money under pretence of obtaining commissions in the Army, and was incarcerated in Cold Bath-fields Prison. The child was then taken and supported from motives of charity by the Princess of Wales. - ED. of AGE."
Of course, who can say at this time which story was true. I haven't checked to see if there are any records re Edwardina.
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Of course, who can say at this time which story was true. I haven't checked to see if there are any records re Edwardina.
Is this relevant:
Faculty Office Marriage Licence
26 Oct 1824 Edwardina A Kent to John T Flinn
No location - Dioceses of England and Wales
Transription by Society of Genealogists
But also
!824 (no d/m date)
Camberwell St Giles
John T Flinn to Edwardina Flinn (!)
Transcription by West Surrey Family History Society
There may be more as I've only just started looking
Gadget
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Thanks to all who have contributed so far.
maddys52 and heywood have provided evidence from the 1841 Census that James and Maria were not born in Berkshire, as the children were; Their origins remain unknown.
Garden genie has mentioned Prince Edward’s long-term partner, Madame de Saint-Laurent. Wikipedia informs us that Recent scholarship (particularly by Mollie Gillen, who was granted access to the Royal Archive at Windsor Castle) has established that no children were born of the 27-year relationship between Prince Edward and Madame de Saint-Laurent….. After the Duke's marriage in 1818 to the Dowager Princess of Leiningen, Madame de Saint-Laurent retreated to Paris where she lived out her days amongst her family and friends. The Prince may have had other mistresses during that relationship. The Australian historian, Mollie Gillen died in 1909, but her book The Prince and His Lady (1970) might be worth reading.
Maddys52 I was unable to find the article on Edwardina of Feb 1837 in The Age but I did find some in other Australian papers of June that year. A Mrs Carey is not mentioned but the article suggests that Edwarina may have been the child of the Princess of Wales and that George the Third gave the lady in question permission to wear the Royal Arms, and to assume, by courtesy, the title of Lady Edwardina Kent.
Ruskie I am not sure if DNA testing will be of much value as Maria is eight or so generations back and I have found finding connections with low percentage matches is a challenge, as many people don’t publish much in the way of a family tree. Furthermore, as you say, the royal descendants concerned may not have had DNA tests. Nevertheless, I will suggest to my granddaughter-in-law and her mother that they have (at least) autosomal DNA testing.
I agree the photo of Sarah is of good quality and in view of your comment as to not resembling QV, I asked my wife to have a look. She thinks there is some semblance and also even slightly (the nose) to Prince Edward.
Little Nell I agree, the hair style and dress is most likely 1850s to 1880s. Newer hair styles came in within that period but older people may have stuck with the older style. The photo is more likely to be Sarah’s than Maria’s.
rosie99 Surely, that is Maria’s marriage.
I have found a profile of Maria Cross (1803-1848) on geni.com containing the statement Records Blanked Out By Queen Victoria’s mother Cross. I will start a new discussion on that platform, seeking evidence of parentage.
Your help is much appreciated.
@Anchor425 - I am also a distant relative and interested in any information uncovered on this topic. Is there a way I can reach out?