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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Staffordshire => England => Staffordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Sally4x on Monday 20 January 25 21:59 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for Norman Smith. I can't find a trace of him before his marriage in 1918. He married Mary Ann Jacques on 23rd January 1918 at St Nicolas in Kings Norton. His father is named as Henry Smith a music teacher. He dies in Walsall on 26th January 1950 aged 56 and is listed as a cinema proprietor. His daughter Barbara Smith informs on his death. So I am assuming Mary Ann has died before this. Any help with finding him before his marriage would be really appreciated.
Thanks
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What was Norman's occupation at marriage?
How old is he on the marriage certificate?
Who were the witnesses?
Where is he in 1921? 1939?
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1939 he and Mary are in Birmingham. DOB 1 July 1893. I'm struggling before and after the marriage. I note the eldest child is registered as Mary but is on 1939 as Iris M, so I wonder if he's swapping order of forenames.
Given he married during WWI, he could have come from elsewhere and met Mary Ann whilst stationed in the Midlands. I can see 7 Normans registered Q3 1893, none of whom are particularly local
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https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/fce10e7d-ab24-469e-acff-ab3d221efd99
His wife wasn't deceased at his death.
Or at least, he had a widow.
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if this is him at Darlaston in 1921
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/c7f0a120-d092-4c3f-b87f-0f25fa8011a9
then perhaps this is too (with a W. )
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/27996c87-e40b-4f7a-acfa-20e24cf325ca
No - there is another Norman SMITH Advertising Manager, employed by Phillips Film Co Ltd, Fil Renters
He can be seen at Brighton in 1921 born 1895 (but indexed on FindMyPast as 1885).
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What was Norman's occupation at marriage?
How old is he on the marriage certificate?
Who were the witnesses?
Where is he in 1921? 1939?
At his marriage he is an engineer and her is 24. The witnesses were a ? Jacques and an L Caldicott. I haven’t been able to find him in 1921 and 1939.
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1939 he and Mary are in Birmingham. DOB 1 July 1893. I'm struggling before and after the marriage. I note the eldest child is registered as Mary but is on 1939 as Iris M, so I wonder if he's swapping order of forenames
I saw that and wasn’t sure if it was him. I couldn’t find a birth for Iris Mary in 1918. Yes it could be Mary though!
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just amended reply #4
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https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/fce10e7d-ab24-469e-acff-ab3d221efd99
His wife wasn't deceased at his death.
Or at least, he had a widow.
That’s great thanks! So he had three daughters! I had only found one possibly two.
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I think the third daughter is Thora Winifred. 1923.
who may have married in 1947 to Geoffrey P. Williams
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Birmingham Gazette, 23 June 1941
Two Smiles of Happiness
Miss Iris Mary Smith, of Scott-road, Walsall, daughter of Mr. Norman Smith, Birmingham manager of R.K.O. Radio Pictures, Ltd., was married at St. Margaret's Church, Great Barr, on Saturday, to Mr. C. J. Scudamore, of Bristol.
With photo.
The Smiths were busy in 1943
Norman Smith, Midland Counties manager of R.K.O. Radio Films, Ltd., lecturing on cinema matters
Mrs. Norman Smith, deputy vice-president, Great Barr Women's Institute
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I think Iris Mary was just registered as Mary in 1918 under Walsall registry and Thora Winifred was registered in 1923 under Dudley registry so the seem to be in the same area during that time span
Willow x
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He left a will - you could get that? Only £1.50!
Smith, Norman Albert otherwise Norman
Probate granted 13 November 1950 to Clifford Scudamore and a solicitor.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/39252/page/3160
See also Walsall Observer, 2 June 1951
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I think Norman maybe either illegitimate or born abroad the only Norman Albert Smith I can find registered was born 1897 in Debyshire and died 1916 in WW1
Also I cant find anything listing him in WW1 but being an engineer was he exempt from joining up?
Willow x
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That's great thanks everyone! He may well have been illegitimate and the father Henry on the marriage certificate was a lie. I still can't find him before his marriage. I am though buying his will!
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Let us know what it says and we will keep on looking
Willow x
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OOOH! Just found a possibility on the 1901 census
28 Station Road Aston Birmingham
Maria Smith Head M 32 Shropshire
Charles Smith 9 Thursday Island Australia
Norman Smith 8 Thursday Island, Australia
John Smith 6 Thursday Island Australia
Edith Smith 3 Thursday Island Australia
Willow x
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I only have free indexes, but 1921 census may be
In Darlaston
Gorman Smith, age 27 years 11 months, born Wakefield, Yorkshire
Mary Alice Smith, 27 years 9 months, Birmingham, Warwickshire
Mary Iris Smitten, 2 years 7 months, Darlaston, Staffordshire
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Well done!
That must be him. He is the manager of the Picturedrome, Crescent Road, Darlaston.
(So the first newspaper clip I posted at #4 is him, but not the second. )
Added, lucky they got the “orman” part. His N is very fancy with a tail.
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Well…..
Wakefield birth for Norman (no second name) has MMN HUNT
Baptism at Wakefield, Holy Trinity, 23 July 1893
Norman Lewis/Louis son of Aaron Leece Smith, teacher of music, and Emily
Address 14 Hartley Yard,
Marriage
Marriages Dec 1890
Smith Aaron Teece Wakefield 9c 97
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I only have free indexes, but 1921 census may be
In Darlaston
Gorman Smith, age 27 years 11 months, born Wakefield, Yorkshire
Mary Alice Smith, 27 years 9 months, Birmingham, Warwickshire
Mary Iris Smitten, 2 years 7 months, Darlaston, Staffordshire
That's him! Thanks so much!
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Image for that marriage is on Ancestry indexed as Leece
It does look like Teece.
Aaron is 29 a widower, teacher of music, father also Aaron iron worker
Emily Hunt 21, father George a miner.
Witnesses William Thomas Thresh, George Ernest Thresh
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Find a grave
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/46296508/aaron-teece-smith?_gl=1*1cjitqw*_gcl_au*MTY3MDQ5NjY2MS4xNzM0NzYzMTk0*_ga*NTI5MjEyODk2LjE3MTkxMDE2Njg.*_ga_4QT8FMEX30*NmU2YjVhYjEtYzRiZS00OWZhLTgzMGEtNDVjM2I0ODU2OGVlLjY3My4xLjE3Mzc0OTE4MjUuNDkuMC4w*_ga_LMK6K2LSJH*NmU2YjVhYjEtYzRiZS00OWZhLTgzMGEtNDVjM2I0ODU2OGVlLjY3NC4xLjE3Mzc0OTE4MjUuMC4wLjA.
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Hmm, or…am I going up a garden path?
Was Aaron Teece actually divorced/separated/a bigamist rather than a widower?
He seems to have been previously married to Elizabeth Harvey. Two children Aaron Teece Smith & Prudence Harvey Smith.
And they, with their mother are in Boraston, Shropshire in 1891 (after the 1890 marriage)
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It sure looks like it! If only Norman's real father's name was on his marriage certificate and not Henry Smith. You have no idea how many Henry Smiths I discounted!
Thanks to all - I have my answers.
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Norman Smith seems an interesting man.
At the Picturedrome from at least September 1919
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/328f6e7f-0f2f-4e85-b548-cb7d96ef4950
I would be wanting to get my hands on some of those pamphlets if he was in my extended family
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This fits with the findagrave entry posted earlier
And names some more brothers
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/0d5df764-e900-4cf4-99b9-1f84247e9c85
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Looking at Redvers R Smith.
He is Redvers Robert Smith b 27 Feb 1900 Walsall
Has a 1918 airforce record.
Anyway, his baptism Walsall Wood
14 March 1900. Father is James Henry Teacher of Music, and Emily
So did Aaron change his name for a while? Hence the name on Norman’s marriage cert.
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For goodness sake!
1901
James H Lewis 39 Teacher of Music, own account at home, b Daisy Bank, Staffs
Emily Lewis 30 b Wednesbury
Emily J. dau 12, b Yorksh, Wakefield
James H. son 10 b Wakefield
Norman son, 7 Wakefield
Sidney K 5, b Hanley, Staffs
Horace 2, b Walsall Wood
Redvers R, 1, b Walsall Wood
1911
Harry Lewis head, 49 Organ & Pianoforte Tuner. B Sedgley, Staffs
Emily Lewis wife, 40 married 23 years 12 children, 9 living, 3 deceased b Wednesbury, Staffs
Norman Lewis son 17, Engine Fitters Labourer, Steam Engine, b Wakefield, Yorks
Sidney Kersland Lewis 15 ***. Office Boy, Iron Foundry, b Hanley Staffs
Horace Lewis 12 b Walsall Wood
Redvers Robert Lewis 11 b Walsall Wood
Harry Lewis 9 b Walsall Wood
Hilda Victoria May Lewis, 5 b Staffs, Shelfield
Alice Gertrude Lewis, 3 b Staffs, Shelfield
*** Sidney K. Lewis of the newspaper article.
How did they keep track of their names!
1921 - not allowed to post a lot of detail
but they are LEWIS still
and Harry Lewis now 57 yrs 9 months is Professor of Music employed at the Darlaston Picturedrome.
and NB Sidney is now married his wife has the exact same name as his sister - Alice Gertrude, the former is 21 and the latter 13
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Incredible stuff, mckha, no wonder it was so hard to find Norman (and his father!)
Some great photographs of the Picturedrome, Darlaston here
http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/articles/Darlaston/cinemas.htm
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Is there a school record for him? :-\
Norman Lewis, born 1893
Admitted 1897, Wednesbury, St. Bartholomew's Church Of England School (Infants)
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Is there a school record for him? :-\
Norman Lewis, born 1893
Admitted 1897, Wednesbury, St. Bartholomew's Church Of England School (Infants)
Yes. D.o.b is correct (7th July 93)
Father is James Henry , address is ………. Croft. looks something like Trouse Croft but really not sure.
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Excellent, thank you.
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Again thanks so much! No wonder i couldn't find him - different surname and different christian names! I am guessing that because they moved back to the area he lived with his first wife his dad possibly had to go by a different name because he was a bigamist.
And what a really interesting man Norman was - I will get as much information about him as I can now that I know who he was. His youngest daughter married a family cousin, but no one knew anything about him. My dad was from Walsall and thought he knew pretty much everything about the extended family. It's a shame me has gone now. He would love this!