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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Mark Falzon on Wednesday 15 January 25 18:02 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I'm trying to establish the date of death of William Charles Lobeck - DOB 21/7/1910 - born in Acton, Middlesex - Married Lily Gilbert. He was admitted to Long Grove Hospital, Epsom Surrey in 1938 classed as a lunatic.
Unfortunately, most of Long Grove records have been lost with my relatives data. I believe, he died there but can't verify this.
Any ideas?
Thank you,
Mark
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Have you had a look for his name on the Free BMD index? Births Marriages Deaths all included.
If you find him you can request a copy of the death certificate to find more information :)
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Are you certain of the middle name?
There is a death in 1982 of a William Ernest Lobeck, date of birth 21 July 1910.
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Yes that seems the best match and correct date of birth.
I would be inclined to take a chance on that one being your man.
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Hi Jen, his name is 100% correct. There are lots of Lobecks with similar names.
The 3 red dots identify WC Lobeck at Long Grove Hospital
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There could be an error on the transcription for the death certificate or the person notifying the death had the wrong middle name.
The birth date is correct, there are no other Lobeck births in that quarter or nearby. There is only one way to find out if it is him and that is by getting the death certificate.
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How/where would I access his death cert? I don't know when he died.
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Hi, I'm trying to establish the date of death of William Charles Lobeck - DOB 21/7/1910 - born in Acton, Middlesex
Not relevant to his death but his birth was registered in Islington reg district which does not cover Acton :-\
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/islington.html
Birth Sep qtr 1910
LOBECK William C Islington 1b 261
1911 census states Acton but Army records say Islington
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The William Ernest Lobeck death in Kingston in 1982 matches with everything but the middle name. A death certificate relies on the information supplied by the informant. It is strange that there is another William Lobeck with the same birth date dying near Epsom
Their birth was not registered here so were they born in another country or is this W C Lobecks death and someone has given the wrong middle name for him or when the GRO index was typed Ernest was typed instead of Charles. Human error could be involved
Perhaps we should be looking for a William Ernest Lobeck prior to this death so that we can eliminate it
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1921 he is at home with his parents and siblings in St Pancras name spelled Lowebeck on FindMyPast
To get a copy of the death certificate go to the GRO Index and sign in.
Ref: March quarter 1982 Vol 13 page 2178 registered Kingston name William Ernest Lobeck
£3 for a PDF copy
NOTES he has a brother named Ernest
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The Lobeck family through generations used the same first name several times. I have attached the lineage to clarify the person.
I am looking fir William Charles Lobeck who admitted into Long Grove Hospital Asylum and he was classed as a lunatic. He died there but I can't find his death records anywhere
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As JenB and Millipede pointed out the information is given by a relative or who ever was present at death.
It's worth checking to see if it's your William, it will give his place of death.
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1921 he is at home with his parents and siblings in St Pancras name spelled Lowebeck on FindMyPast
To get a copy of the death certificate go to the GRO Index and sign in.
Ref: March quarter 1982 Vol 13 page 2178 registered Kingston name William Ernest Lobeck
£3 for a PDF copy
NOTES he has a brother named Ernest
You cannot get a pdf or digital copy for 1982, it will have to be a paper copy.
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My mistake, apologies.
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From the family chart
Missing Irene born 29 July 1920 (per 1939 register) mother's maiden name transcribed as Pears instead of Pearman
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Mr WC Lobeck was admitted to Long Grove on 8 March 1937 and discharged on 29 May 1938. He was then readmitted on 21 Jun 1938, but no discharge date is given.
Surrey's former hospitals we also hold thousands of individual case medical case files but I'm afraid that only a small handful survive for Long Grove and Mr Lobeck's is not among them.
This is a reply from Surrey History Centre
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The only way to see if there is another death registration other than the one that has been suggested is for you to search here.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
This is the website to order certificates
Deaths on freebmd are not up to date and GRO only goes up to 2023.
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Hi Rosie, without knowing the date of death it makes very difficult to find tbh
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Deceased online does not have a burial for him though his parents are there
Lobeck, William Benjamin
Burial date 18 May 1951
Location Islington
Lobeck, Ella Annie Grace
Burial date 11 June 1949
Location Islington
also posting as the only other Lobecks listed on that site
Lobeck, Henrietta
Burial date 11 April 1925
Location Camden
Lobeck, Clifford Billy
Burial date 06 December 1932
Location Camden
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I am sorry but I think the only way you have to go is to order that certificate that has been found. I am sure that the others on this post would agree with me. What is the chance that there is another William Lobeck with that exact birth date.
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Thanks Rosie, I have all the family details except William Charles Lobeck.
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Hi Rosie, without knowing the date of death it makes very difficult to find tbh
Death certificates after 1969 give the date of birth so you don't necessarily need a death date. Prior to that they give age at death.
I have just searched the GRO death indexes from 1983 - 2023 for a William Lobeck (Male), it took a couple of minutes selecting every 5 years +/- 2. There is only one other death, also a William Ernest. I have not tried the search with variants of the surname
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I am sorry but I think the only way you have to go is to order that certificate that has been found. I am sure that the others on this post would agree with me. What is the chance that there is another William Lobeck with that exact birth date.
I have been following this with interest.
Just want to say I agree with others. The William Ernest death really does seem the most likely. As has already been stated there are several possible reasons for the incorrect second name. But the fact the area is as expected and the date of birth is exact are powerfully reasons to purchase the death certificate. I can see no sign of who else William Ernest could be. At the very least the certificate would rule him in or out,
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I am sorry but I think the only way you have to go is to order that certificate that has been found. I am sure that the others on this post would agree with me. What is the chance that there is another William Lobeck with that exact birth date.
I have been following this with interest.
Just want to say I agree with others. The William Ernest death really does seem the most likely. As has already been stated there are several possible reasons for the incorrect second name. But the fact the area is as expected and the date of birth is exact are powerfully reasons to purchase the death certificate. I can see no sign of who else William Ernest could be. At the very least the certificate would rule him in or out,
I also have been looking and have to agree with Rosie and others.
Is it possible the informant mistakenly used his brother Ernest first name as William middle name :-\
from the Army Record Ernest Stanley dob 17 Mar 1912 and it's an exact match on his death record Ernest Stanley Lobeck age 79 Birth 17 Mar 1912 Aug 1991 Uttlesford
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I'm sorry everyone, I have records for William Charles from his birth, 1911 census, residences , marriage , admission to the asylum.
It's impossible that his name was mistakenly entered incorrectly over 4 decades.
Thanks for all your help, much appreciated.
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Nothing is impossible where human error could be involved. ;D
Do let us know if you locate it.
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Married Lily Gilbert
Then he also had a son called William Ernest
LOBECK, WILLIAM ERNEST BENJAMIN
Mother's Maiden Surname: GILBERT
GRO Reference: 1934 J Quarter in ST. PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 83
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I'm sorry everyone, I have records for William Charles from his birth, 1911 census, residences , marriage , admission to the asylum.
It's impossible that his name was mistakenly entered incorrectly over 4 decades.
I don't think anyone has suggested that his name has been incorrectly recorded over four decades.
What has been suggested is that his name, for whatever reason, has been incorrectly entered on his death certificate.
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It appears that GRO does not have a death record for William Ernest Lobeck born 21/7/1910
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Have you tried to order it using the details provided?
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The searchable index has gaps in it for both birth and death records, it starts again in 1983 so you will have to put the details in yourself. I always double check the information before ordering in that circumstance by looking at the image of the register which you can view on freebmd by selecting the spectacle image alongside the transcription and then downloading the image
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Lobeck, Clifford Billy
Burial date 06 December 1932
Location Camden
Probably a son of William Charles (whose death may be registered as William Ernest) :(
Birth
LOBECK, CLIFFORD BILLY
Mother's Maiden Surname: GILBERT
GRO Reference: 1932 D Quarter in ST. PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 35
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It appears that GRO does not have a death record for William Ernest Lobeck born 21/7/1910
The GRO does have a death record for that William Ernest Lobeck. But as rosie has explained there are gaps in the searchable online GRO index.
You will have to enter the necessary details yourself on the GRO order page https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/app_ew_death_quoted.asp?APPLICATION_ID=5T6E7381A7I282E6246ESI44DHXQBAHE73H
Here is the death as indexed on the volunteer transcription page freeBMD
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In the absence of any other possible, I too would take a punt on ordering that certificate
You have his d.o.b.
I searched FreeBMD for deaths ,
surname Lobeck
first name William
left the middle name blank
Death age/dob @1909-1911
and this William Ernest, with the 'exact' birth date you are looking for is the only one to come up from 1938 onwards
NB I also tried the same search with wild cards in the surname as LO*ECK , based on the fact the father completed the form and signed with the surname LOWEBECK for everyone, on the 1921 census Still only this one result
I've seen so many discrepancies on death certs with age, names etc I would hestitate to discount the one possible entry until I saw what is on the cert.
Boo
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Thanks Boo,
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If you do go ahead and get the details of the death cert, would you mind letting us know if it confirms or discounts it being your man?
Not a case of anyone here wanting to be proved right or wrong, more that it would help us to learn a bit more and satisfy (especially in my case) our curiosity :-)
Boo