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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 09:06 GMT (UK)

Title: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 09:06 GMT (UK)
Hi,  would anyone mind sharing their eyes and see if they can find a marriage and 1851 cencus for my 3xgt aunt please.

Olive plant.  Lived in Hanley stoke-on-Trent born.1811
married 1832 and widowed in 1846 - Olive Harrison
Olive Harrison had 6 ch.

After her husbands death two other children are born  James Day 1848 in Bilston  mother Harrison
and Alfred Day b.1852 (warwick mother Plant)

in 1861 Olive is back living in Hanley, married to William Day, with ch. james, Alfred, Stephen from first marriage and her niece Elizabeth.

can anyone find Olive Anywhere in 1851  and when and where did she marry William Day.

Thanks.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 12 January 25 10:28 GMT (UK)
It's possible they didn't actually marry but lived as man and wife but can you find William in 1851 or prior, what occupation did he have in 1861?

As children were born either side of 1851 they could be living together then under Day with little James.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: ColC on Sunday 12 January 25 10:31 GMT (UK)
Olive Plant
Marriage  19 February 1832
Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire.
Spouses Harmet Harrison

Family search.

Colin
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: ColC on Sunday 12 January 25 10:37 GMT (UK)
Two children on family search.


John Harrison Christening  27 April 1832 
Hanley, Staffordshire,
Parents Armitt Harrison, Olive

Peter Harrison Born 2 June 1835
Christening  4 October 1835 
Hanley, Staffordshire 
Parents Hasmet Harrison, Olive Harrison

Colin
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: ColC on Sunday 12 January 25 10:40 GMT (UK)
Armett Harrison
Burial  1 November 1846
Tunstall, Staffordshire.

Colin
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 12 January 25 10:40 GMT (UK)
Drawing a blank on a marriage and 1851 I'm afraid  :-\

Do you have an address for the birth of James?
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: heywood on Sunday 12 January 25 10:51 GMT (UK)
Drawing a blank on a marriage and 1851 I'm afraid  :-\

Do you have an address for the birth of James?

Also, the address for Alfred, 1852, Warwick
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 10:53 GMT (UK)
No  i dont have an address, perhaps i need get his birth certificate.  Olive seems to move out of Hanley after her husbands death, has theses two children and then returns married in 1861. in 1871 she is living with everyone in yorkshire and dies in Halifax yorkshire.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 11:02 GMT (UK)
This might be Stephen in 1851 aged 8. I see he was born circa 1842 on the 1861

Wolstanton And Burslem Union Workhouse  Tunstall*
HO107/2002/679/6

*Add - born Tunstall

Gadget
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 11:05 GMT (UK)
yes i've got Stephen thanks, he moves to Yorkshire with his mother and family in 1871
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 11:17 GMT (UK)
So who of the family have you got in 1851?
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 12:20 GMT (UK)
no one,  i cant find anyone in 1851.  Olive is a widow, has had the two children james day and Alfred day since her first husbands death  William day is father of the two children  but cant fnd any of them in 1851.  Nor can i find a second marriage for Olive.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: heywood on Sunday 12 January 25 12:32 GMT (UK)
This might be Stephen in 1851 aged 8. I see he was born circa 1842 on the 1861

Wolstanton And Burslem Union Workhouse  Tunstall*
HO107/2002/679/6

*Add - born Tunstall

Gadget

Stephen is with the family in 1841 990 /19/30
Ancestry has transcribed him as Stephen ‘Brett’ - wrongly.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 13:07 GMT (UK)
I really don't understand you saying that you can;t find anyone in the 1851

# i cant find anyone in 1851. 

When I said

This might be Stephen in 1851 aged 8. I see he was born circa 1842 on the 1861

Wolstanton And Burslem Union Workhouse  Tunstall*
HO107/2002/679/6

*Add - born Tunstall

Gadget


 ???
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 12 January 25 13:13 GMT (UK)
I think you are looking for Olive, James, William in 1851 is that right plus their marriage? The other Day child wasn’t yet born.

There’s a possible for William in 1851 single with family but haven’t double checked it. 

As I suggested they may not have officially married. 
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 13:28 GMT (UK)
Transcriptions are possibly way out. On the 1861, Olive is transcribed as Maria *by F M P and, as Heywood says, with surname Brett in 1841!

*clearly Olive on the original
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 14:04 GMT (UK)
Hi, thanks perhaps they never did marry.  seems odd husband dies, she moves away, had two children then reappears in Hanley supposidly married to William day.   William s birth in 1861 is given as Wiltshire, if i trace him he is happily at home with parents in 1851  no sign of an Olive or child james.
Just mustnt want to found yet.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 12 January 25 14:32 GMT (UK)
Were Olive's parents still alive in 1851? 
You have possibly already checked to see if she or James were with them. 

Hard to say if his birth address would help much or not, just to check it out in 1851 really. 

What occupation did William have? 
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 12 January 25 14:55 GMT (UK)
Do you know when Olive and William died?  Was she Olive Day **

** maybe this one Dec 1878 Halifax district age 70
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 12 January 25 15:16 GMT (UK)
There is a Samuel Day mothers maiden name Plant born Sep 1853 Aston but not finding a registration for James  :-\
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 15:34 GMT (UK)
I've just got a cheap copy of Albert's birth cert - Q1 1852 Warwick, which I referenced earlier

Interestingly. it reads

 born 14th December 1851, Althorp (?) Street. Leamington
Name Alfred  Boy
Father William Day (railway labourer)
Mother Mary Day formerly Plant
Informant Mary Day, formerly Plant  15 Jan 1852

Gadget


Check 1851 for a Mary
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 15:44 GMT (UK)
hi, yes I think thats Olives death. her husband? William died 1875 Bradford.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 15:46 GMT (UK)
Thanks for getting that info  I'll go and search for a Mary Plant.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 15:49 GMT (UK)
Thanks for getting that info  I'll go and search for a Mary Plant.
i
I don't see her on a quick check.

If you'd like the birth cert send me an e-mil address via Pm.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 16:02 GMT (UK)
thank you so much, will do.  Its most definatly The William, his occupation matches what I have in 1871. 
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 12 January 25 16:04 GMT (UK)
Mary Day the plot thickens!  Still not finding her though  :-\
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 16:08 GMT (UK)
Did Olive have a sister or was it made up or ??
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 12 January 25 16:10 GMT (UK)
There's an Althorpe St in Leamington Priors 1851 census - do you have a number by chance?

There are a couple of lodgers called Day on that street number 17 and he is a railway labourer but birthplaces don't match or names. 

Henry 40 and Elen 42
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 16:18 GMT (UK)
There's an Althorpe St in Leamington Priors 1851 census - do you have a number by chance?

There are a couple of lodgers called Day on that street number 17 and he is a railway labourer but birthplaces don't match or names. 

Henry 40 and Elen 42


Very odd - William was definitely a railway labourer .
No number on the cert.


Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 16:19 GMT (UK)
Henry and Elen - could they be relatives of William or made up names  ???
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 12 January 25 16:29 GMT (UK)
I paged through the street and nothing else jumped out apart from those.  Could be coincidence with the names.

Have to leave you to it now but will check back. 

Oh one more thing to note if I had the right William in 1851 the census said he was blind.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 16:30 GMT (UK)
Olive has sisters Elizabeth, Sarah, Ann and a brother William (my x2grgrandfather)  but from what I can see they all live in Hanley/Bucknell born/die there.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 16:46 GMT (UK)

Oh one more thing to note if I had the right William in 1851 the census said he was blind.

Not sure that you've got the correct entries  ???

You stated Henry and Elen Day. There is a tick in the B or D col for both. It could be Deaf. Not sure if a railway labourer could be blind  :-\
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 16:53 GMT (UK)
ive just sent off for the other childs birth certificate  hopefully will arrive shortly to see who is named on that one   James
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 17:02 GMT (UK)
i have got James birth certificate

father william day-  wards field bilston

mother Mary Day  formally Harrison

Harrison was Olives married name,  seems very odd   was she using a false name?
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 17:13 GMT (UK)
She did marry a Harrison though- could be a relative?

This I think is correct for James and Alfred.

1871  has
William , 56, b. Swindon, Wilts
Olive, 60, b. Hanley, Staffs
James. 22. b. Bildton, Staffs
Alfred, 19, b. Leamington, Warwicks

No D or B ticks.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 17:20 GMT (UK)
yes her first husband was Harrison , her children also have that surname born when married.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 17:23 GMT (UK)
yes I have the 1861 and 1871

Im sure thats her in the birth certificates of james/Alfred  but why she would change her name is a mystery

Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 17:32 GMT (UK)
in 1841  living kent street  Hanley,

hermet harrison husband, olive wife,  children  john 9, peter 7, William 8, thomas 5, Mary 2 Stephen 1


Notice she has a daughter Mary - wonder if that could be connection ?  never found out about her
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 17:40 GMT (UK)
I think the other Days had moved from the lodgings is Leamington by Dec 1851 and Olve/Mary moved in.
Have we got James' full birth cert? or am I going around in circles  :-X
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 12 January 25 17:49 GMT (UK)
Gadget - just to clarify the blind notation I mentioned was from the 1851 census for William Day I was looking at.  He was single and with family but I haven’t double checked it. 

Inferring that the Henry and Elen in Leamington were different people. 
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 12 January 25 18:00 GMT (UK)
Right so James born wards field Bilston mother Mary again.  Can we check for that address in 1851 just in case they are still there? 

What about the Samuel Day MMN Plank born 1853 as well, could he be another brother? 
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 12 January 25 18:49 GMT (UK)
What brothers and sisters did Olive have, have you checked all those in 1851 to see if they have James  :-\
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 19:02 GMT (UK)
Her sister Elizabeth has a james age 3 in 1851 but he is regestered in stoke under the mothers married name Shirley, sarah had no James, Ann died in 1850 and didnt have a James and William had no children called James.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 19:46 GMT (UK)
so James and Alfred both are registered with MMN as Plant. Could she have died after the birth of Alfred and then Olive moved in with William and  took over the care of the children, etc?

Any sign of a marriage for Mary and William?
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 12 January 25 20:29 GMT (UK)
 ???

13 Mar 1837
Worcester

William Day m Maria Day

Source - England Marriages 1538-1973 (also Family Search)
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Sunday 12 January 25 20:51 GMT (UK)
 such a mystery, thank you both of you for all your help.
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Monday 13 January 25 12:37 GMT (UK)
Just out of interest I got the 1853 birth for Samuel Day MMN Plant to see who the parents were

Father John a brass founder
Mother Mary Ann

so he appears to be unrelated and my curiosity has been satisfied!
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 14 January 25 09:46 GMT (UK)
Death for Olive Day 18 Nov 1878 West Vale Elland age 70 widow of William Day labourer

Informant Alfred Day son present at the death
Title: Re: missing census and marriage.
Post by: england100 on Tuesday 14 January 25 20:36 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that info.  I guess Olive must have married somewhere, perhaps a small chaple not yet transcribed.