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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Shropshire => England => Shropshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Aquitaine on Friday 10 January 25 17:56 GMT (UK)

Title: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Aquitaine on Friday 10 January 25 17:56 GMT (UK)
Hello everyone

I am trying to sort out this family,

Would anyone be able to look up in Fourth Quarter at Oswestry a transcript for marriage of

Richard Roberts to Jane Ann Jones nee Roberts

they lived also at Llanfllyin 

Thank you if anyone can help
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 10 January 25 18:03 GMT (UK)
You will probably need to buy a copy of the Marriage Certificate.
Unless someone has access to Parish Registers?
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 10 January 25 19:47 GMT (UK)
To look up a marriage in parish records you need to know which church it took place in.  If it was a civil marriage (registry office) it can't be looked up

These are all the areas contained within the Oswestry RD

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/oswestry.html
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Aquitaine on Wednesday 12 February 25 15:04 GMT (UK)
Many thanks to those that replied I decided to get the certificate. I am awaiting the marriage certificate next week so hopefully can make progress with the Jones and Roberts families.

Is anyone familiar with Lancashire burials around Whitworth please ? The family came from Wales to Lancashire.

I have checked Rochdale Cemetery Whitworth and Bacup for a burial of Richard Roberts of Shawforth railway porter died 7th April 1946 of Market Street Shawforth.  Is there somewhere else nearby that I am missing?  His wife died and is buried at Bacup Cemetery 20 Feb 1932.

Many thanks again.
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 12 February 25 16:04 GMT (UK)
I've just checked the register and find that I've looked at this entry before so it could be a relative of mine or a previous look up.

I'll see what I can find.

Gadget
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Aquitaine on Sunday 02 March 25 11:44 GMT (UK)
Hello friends I would be greatful for some help,

I received the certificate from the GRO recently but I would not have found this as the event was at the Register Office!

Both sides of this family have Roberts in them (an extended line of mine not direct) I thought I would be away and researching great! One family of Roberts is around Llanfyllin Montgomeryshire and I have a good lineage with that and the other was supposed to be Newtown or Llanfair Caereinion Montgomeryshire.

I cannot find this man on a census prior to 1921. With family at Llanllwchaiarn, Montgomeryshire, Wales
I have 1939 register at Whitworth nr Rochdale gives birth date 7 Jan 1879
I have his wife's death and burial (widow of Samuel Jones) Jane Ann Jones nee Roberts in 1932 at Whitworth cemetery
I have his death in 1946 at Shawforth nr Rochdale - no mention in Rochdale Observer tried Whitworth cemetery, Rochdale cemetery - burials only.

The marriage was on 5 October 1925 Oswestry Richard Roberts was born 7 Jan 1879 the 1921 census has birth place as Llanfair-Coereinion. This morning I tried the GRO for two entries there isnt one in 1st Quarter 1879 around these places one to a father Robert Roberts and the other one is illegitimate. And there are so many Richard Roberts.  I tried 1881 census as he would be 2 yrs old with father Richard Roberts but I cant be certain it is the same person.

Richard Roberts born 1879 has a father Richard Roberts who was a "farm bailiff" and deceased in 1925 I tried typing "farm bailiff" in the census to see if any entries?

Are there any parish or chapel registers for 1879 available that could help to pick up his parents?
Any help would be appreciated.  Thank you again.
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 02 March 25 12:18 GMT (UK)
Would anyone be able to look up in Fourth Quarter at Oswestry a transcript for marriage of
Richard Roberts to Jane Ann Jones nee Roberts

You could have checked on Shropshire BMD
https://www.shropshirebmd.info/

ROBERTS   Richard   
JONES   Jane A   
Year 1925   
Church / Register Office - Oswestry Register Office or Registrar Attended   
Registers At Shrewsbury   
Reference   RO-OS/28/116
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 02 March 25 13:25 GMT (UK)
Deaths Mar 1932   
Roberts    Jane A    54    Rochdale    8e   99

Quote
the 1921 census has birth place as Llanfair-Coereinion

He was b Llanfair Caereinion

He didn't marry Jane until 1925 but they are shown as married in 1921

Quote
I have 1939 register at Whitworth nr Rochdale gives birth date 7 Jan 1879

The age + months on the 1921 census do not support an 1879 birthyear - more like 1878

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/llanfyllin.html

There is no Richard Roberts birth in that RD in either the March qtr 1878 or 1879 except one in the June qtr which is a bit late if he was b 7/1.  All others have middle names

Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Aquitaine on Monday 03 March 25 12:24 GMT (UK)
Thank you to all that responded I will have to have a re think.
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Aquitaine on Friday 11 April 25 17:19 BST (UK)
Hi all here I go again, I havent done any Welsh research bordering on Shropshire so struggling with place names.

The marriage took place at the Register Office Oswestry Shropshire 5 Oct 1925 and I have the certificate.
I am interested in finding Richard Roberts born abt 1878/79 he gave date of birth on 1939 register as 4 Jan 1879 then on 1921 place of birth was Llanfair-Caereinion, Montgomeryshire, Wales living 43 Bryn St, Newtown. His father was named as also Richard Roberts a farm bailiff.  His wife Jane Ann Jones nee Roberts was wife/widow of Samuel Jones who was living further down the same street in 1921. Richard Roberts was cremated I found out at Rochdale. The earliest known census is the 1921. I am happy with Jane Ann Jones nee Roberts tree up to now.

I have checked GRO for a birth of Richard Roberts in 1st Q 1879 without success there are some in later quarters ?! So I dont know if the birth date is wrong etc. or not registered.  I have looked at some census but feel I am going round in circles, with Jones, Roberts and Roberts on the other side. 

I wondered if anyone could help. Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 11 April 25 17:48 BST (UK)
Was Richard shown as a bachelor or a widower on the marriage cert?  He was around 47 in 1925 if he was b 1878
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 11 April 25 18:04 BST (UK)
Maybe a red herring but there is this bapt. Could the father be made up?

Name   Richard Roberts
Baptism Age   0
Record Type   Baptism
Birth Date   1879
Baptism Date   19 Feb 1879
Baptism Place   Garthbeibio, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Mother   Ellen
Page number   73

About 9 miles to Llanfair

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MGY/Garthbeibio

Cas
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 11 April 25 20:12 BST (UK)
Not locating any with father Richard that is a farm bailiff.

He must have been enlisted for WW1. Which may give a next of kin.

Possibles..no access to Fold 3

Name   Richard Roberts
Rank   Private
Record Type   Military
Birth Date   1877
Residence Place   Newtown Mon (Newtown is in Montgomeryshire) also area in 1921 census)
Military Service Region   Wales
Military Country   Wales
Discharge Date   24 Apr 1918
Service Number   265242
Corps, Regiment or Unit   LABOUR CORPS
Service Branch   Military (Army)
Title   WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
Description   Pension Record Ledger
Reference Number   5/Mr/319

Name   Richard Roberts
Military Date   1914-1920
Military Place   England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, United Kingdom
Regiment or Corps   The Royal Welsh (Welch) Fusiliers, Labour Corps
Regimental Number   36538, 265242

Cas
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Aquitaine on Friday 11 April 25 21:13 BST (UK)
Hi there, thank you to Carole W and Cas,
I will try to follow up on your messages, apologies if I spelt any Welsh names incorrectly!
I think Richard is giving me the run around.

I got a birth certificate GRO which is not the one: 16 Feb 1879 Richard son of Robert Roberts mother Mary Roberts formerly Jones - father a labourer -at Tainewyddion Pennant - discounted as father incorrect...you can see why I am getting mixed up with the Jones and Roberts!

and another birth record 2 June 1879 at Pistiladdan Manafon Richard no father listed mother Mary Roberts.

Here is the transcript of the marriage certificate  5 October 1925 at Register Office Oswestry Salops

Richard Roberts 46 years bachelor - Insurance Agent - 66 Salop Road Oswestry - his father Richard Roberts (deceased) - Farm Bailiff married to: Jane Anne Jones 47 years widow - 66 Salop Road Oswestry her father Evan Roberts (deceased) - General labourer both signed the register Witnesses:
Alice Gwilt and ??? Howell.   I cannot make out the first name it seems unusual and a middle name letter. Not a J ??? I've got a line with Jane Anne Jones nee Roberts on Ancestry so happy there.
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 11 April 25 21:23 BST (UK)
There is this marriage, so could be a possible sister to Robert

Marriages Jun Q 1912   
GWILT    Joseph    - Roberts    Oswestry    6a   1602    
Roberts    Alice   -  Gwilt    Oswestry    6a   1602    
 
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 11 April 25 22:01 BST (UK)
1911 for Jane Ann Jones & husband Samuel has Alice Roberts down as Sis in Law.

Going by 1921 Alice Gwilt b 1881 Shropshire, with husband it looks like same Alice. So likely on the Jane Ann side.
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Aquitaine on Friday 11 April 25 22:08 BST (UK)
I have done a check on Alice Gwilt and husband Joseph they were buried at Chirk Denbeighshire.
I found them on 1939 Register at 13 Bron-Y-Waen Chirk. Alice left a will probate to husband Joseph Gwilt 1955 both buried Chirk.

I have found an Alice Roberts registered 4Q Llanfyllin I was going to order, but as you say it may be the other side of family!

I feel I am going astray abit with these families.
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 11 April 25 22:41 BST (UK)
Can you do a screenshot snippet of the other witness name? Many are good at deciphering.

Other than that I don't know what to suggest, but would look at the enlistments, check for others, as am sure he would have been called up.

No access to Fold 3 but some on the military board are more knowledgeable
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Saturday 12 April 25 14:26 BST (UK)
Was also looking at this possible yesterday.

Name   Richard Roberts
Enlistment Age   21
Birth Date   abt 1880
Birth Place   Leanfair Mortgemeryshire (Llanfair?)
Enlistment Year   1901
Regiment   Shropshire L . I.
Regimental Number   6826
Attestation Paper   Yes

It looks like the first daughter is adopted. Not finding a birth reg, also has parents unknown in 1921.  William Maurice Roberts b 1903 Birkenhead in 1911 is illegitimate, possible mother Jane. No children to couple/ Samuel in 1911.  Looks like Elsie is the couples daughter, registered Mar Q 1921..so couple at least met around 1918 - 1920 so must have been same area, possibly Shropshire or Montgomeryshire.

Difficult with just one census to pin down earlier, and some things like father Richard, farm bailiff, etc don't seem to add up

Cas

Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Aquitaine on Saturday 12 April 25 15:03 BST (UK)
Hi all I have managed to do a scan in and clip for screenshot from the marriage document about the first name I cannot read.  Thank you for your continued help but when I tried to upload it wont as its a specific forum board. Is there another way ?   

Yes thats correct about the adopted daughter I got the birth certificates...it is William Maurice Roberts that is the link downwards on this family.

Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Saturday 12 April 25 15:11 BST (UK)
Look up boards are disabled from attachments. You could try the decipher board

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/handwriting-deciphering-recognition/
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Aquitaine on Saturday 12 April 25 18:38 BST (UK)
Hi Cas and all what a learning curve, here I have had to post the clip from the marriage certificate of Richard Roberts the witnesses ....  something Howell it is clear writing ...the other I know is Alice Gwilt

This is the link page I put it on! Phew.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=370538.new
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Saturday 12 April 25 18:41 BST (UK)
1921

 (Taliesin) Old Welsh name - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliesin

Talisin Thomas Howell age 40 Years 4 Months Head living Owestry b Aberavon, Glamorgan

Possible friend, does not look like family connection.
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 12 April 25 18:53 BST (UK)
He is in Oswestry on the 1939. Born 1991

Add - T  is for Thomas - see 1921 census.

Sorry Cas  - when I first looked you'd just put up his name - no other details  :-\
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Aquitaine on Saturday 12 April 25 18:55 BST (UK)
Thank you Cas and others, I wouldnt have guessed thanks
Title: Re: Marriage look up Oswestry 1925
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Saturday 12 April 25 18:58 BST (UK)
He is in Oswestry on the 1939. Born 1991

Add - T  is for Thomas - see 1921 census.

Sorry Cas  - when I first looked you'd just put up his name - no other details  :-\

No worries Gadget, hope your feeling better