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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Roscommon => Topic started by: Robert2022 on Monday 06 January 25 08:11 GMT (UK)

Title: Finan Family
Post by: Robert2022 on Monday 06 January 25 08:11 GMT (UK)
Hello
I have found that my great-great-grandfathers sister married a Finan

Her name was Mary Anna Farrell (MAY 1843 Drogheda, Co. Louth, Ireland - 7 SEP 1914 Castlerea, Co Roscommon, Ireland) she married on 22 JAN 1863 in Loughglynn, Roscommon, Ireland to Martin Finan (1841 Castlerea, Roscommon, Ireland - NOV 1922 Cloonsuck, Castlerea, Roscommon, Ireland)

I am wondering if someone can help me found out if they had any children and if they did have children then did any of them marry and have children themselves.
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 08:41 GMT (UK)
This is likely to be them in 1901 - although Mary says born Roscommon

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Roscommon/Cloonfower/Cloonsuck/1664740/

Son Edward’s birth
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02836/2039711.pdf

1911 - says 6 children born and still living
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Roscommon/Cloonflower/Cloonsuck/760816/

Added - maybe not 1911 - son Patrick
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03525/2296976.pdf


Wrong family - there are two Martins in 1901
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 09:08 GMT (UK)
There is a published tree for the family with several children but i am not sure if there is a mix with the other family.
How sure are you that it is your relative?
In some records Finan/Farrell records that I can see, the mother is Mary or Maria not Mary Anne.

Added
Here is the marriage of Martin Finan and Ann Finan (scant detail) on 21st January 1864, Loughglynn.
 This seems to be mixed up with your Finan/Farrell records
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1864/11603/8270497.pdf
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 09:36 GMT (UK)
This is the marriage of Martin Finan and Mary Farrell
Kilkeevin (Castlerea) June 22nd 1863
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633929?locale=en#page/55/mode/1up
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 06 January 25 10:10 GMT (UK)
Drogheda in Co. Louth is about 105 miles from Castlerea in Co. Roscommon which was more than a considerable distance in mid-1800s.
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: Wexflyer on Monday 06 January 25 10:31 GMT (UK)
Drogheda in Co. Louth is about 105 miles from Castlerea in Co. Roscommon which was more than a considerable distance in mid-1800s.

I second this. I would not believe that this is OP's relative absent some other proof of a link.
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 06 January 25 11:10 GMT (UK)
...Martin Finan (1841 Castlerea, Roscommon, Ireland - NOV 1922 Cloonsuck, Castlerea, Roscommon, Ireland)

Martin Finan died on 21 September 1922 at Cloonsuck. The informant was his daughter-in-law Mary Finan. The RD Ballinlough.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1922/05062/4387112.pdf
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4777391#map=12/53.7581/-8.5748


Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: Robert2022 on Monday 06 January 25 12:53 GMT (UK)
I have doing my family tree on many sites and for this Mary Anna Farrell I am geting hints that she married a Martin Finan, along with other peoples tree's they say the same thing as me born in Drogheda and died in Castlerea, Co Roscommon, Ireland.

Her parents are down as Peter Farrell (July 1816 Athboy, Co. Meath, Ireland - 14 Feb 1879 Black Bull, Drogheda, Co. Louth, Ireland) & Catherine Murray (1815 Drogheda, Co. Louth, Ireland - ???)

On some people's family tree they have Mary Anna Farrell place of birth down as Castlerea, Co Roscommon, Ireland, but her parents are the same.
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 13:41 GMT (UK)
If you check those trees, they are combining  records of Martin Finan - spouse Anne Finan and Martin Finan and Mary Farrell.
People often just find a record and use it with no corroborative evidence.
I haven’t seen Mary referred to as Mary Ann Farrell.

If you look at 1901 census, there are two MF’s in Cloonsuck. There is one with daughter in law Mary who is likely to be the one who reports the deaths of Martin and Ann.
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 13:52 GMT (UK)
There is a death of Mary Finan , 63 yrs of Cloonsuck in 1907 but she is a widow. She died in the workhouse so no informant’s name to help.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05536/4551909.pdf
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: Robert2022 on Monday 06 January 25 14:03 GMT (UK)
If you check those trees, they are combining  records of Martin Finan - spouse Anne Finan and Martin Finan and Mary Farrell.
People often just find a record and use it with no corroborative evidence.
I haven’t seen Mary referred to as Mary Ann Farrell.

If you look at 1901 census, there are two MF’s in Cloonsuck. There is one with daughter in law Mary who is likely to be the one who reports the deaths of Martin and Ann.

So I take it then I've made a mistake
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 06 January 25 14:06 GMT (UK)

If you look at 1901 census, there are two MF’s in Cloonsuck. There is one with daughter in law Mary who is likely to be the one who reports the deaths of Martin and Ann.


Anne Finan died 16 January 1914 at Cloonsuck. Again the informant was her daughter-in-law Mary Finan (nee Cunniff).   #248
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1914/05308/4476476.pdf

At reply #1, heywood posted the scored-out 1911 census (which includes three grandchildren).


Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 14:27 GMT (UK)
I am looking at a published tree which has Mary Anne Farrell as you report.
Several children are listed to Martin and Mary Anne.

Jane - 1864 - baptism Martin and Mary Farrel
Patrick - 1865 I can’t see this but 1866 - Martin and Ann Finan
Thomas - 1866 - Martin and Mary Farrel
Bridget - 1869- Martin and Mary Farrel
Michael - 1870 - Martin and Mary Farrel
Dominick - 1872 - parents Martin and Ann Finan
Martin - 1873 - Martin and Mary Farrel
John - 1875 - Martin and Mary Farrel
Edward - 1880 - there is Edward b 1881 - Martin and Mary Farrell
Kate - 1880 - can’t see a birth yet but in 1901 is with Martin and Ann

Both 1901 censuses seem to be cited in the tree -

In 1911, Ann Finan states 6 children born and still alive


Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 14:41 GMT (UK)
Re the daughter Kate, there is a birth and baptism 1875 fir Catherine, daughter of Martin and Ann Finan.

There are several baptisms to parents Martn Finan and Ann Finan in Kilkeevan parush.
Patrick, Mary, Michael, Dominick and Catherine.
5 of the 6?
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 06 January 25 15:06 GMT (UK)

Quote
Re the daughter Kate, there is a birth and baptism 1875 fir Catherine, daughter of Martin and Ann Finan.

Born 22 June at Cloonsuck.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03087/2131520.pdf


Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 15:35 GMT (UK)
Hi KG,
I didn’t post the births/baptisms  to Martin Finan and his spouse Ann Finan as they are  not Farrel/Farrell births.
Robert might want to verify them though as some (only some) of the tree records refer to that couple and not Mary Farrel.
As i said they are combined records - even citing the 1864 marriage of Martin Finan and Anne Finan as the Finan/Farrell marriage. It does not seem to have been verified.
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 15:38 GMT (UK)

So I take it then I've made a mistake

Only the error of accepting others mistakes. We have all done it. It is just best to try to check out what has been posted.
I have listed the various folk for you to verify. It is so much better now with Irish records to check, although not all are available.
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 06 January 25 15:39 GMT (UK)

Thanks, heywood  :)

We'll await Robert's comments.

Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: Robert2022 on Monday 06 January 25 15:41 GMT (UK)
This is the marriage of Martin Finan and Mary Farrell
Kilkeevin (Castlerea) June 22nd 1863
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633929?locale=en#page/55/mode/1up

I'd go with this one unless you can found one were it says who the Parents were or were they are from
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 15:56 GMT (UK)
Sadly, parish records don’t give the parents and civil records didn’t begin until 1864.
The witnesses don’t have family names.
We could see if there are baptisms for the children with family Godparents.
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 16:54 GMT (UK)
Robert,
Do you know that Mary Anne survived and married?
There are deaths in Drogheda here https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/  but too early for online.
1864 - Mary Anne Farrell, 20 yrs
1865 Mary Farrell, 21 yrs
1865 Mary Farrell 19 yrs

Who is Anne Farrell, the informant at Peter's death
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1879/06528/4881193.pdf
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: Robert2022 on Monday 06 January 25 17:49 GMT (UK)
Robert,
Do you know that Mary Anne survived and married?
There are deaths in Drogheda here https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/  but too early for online.
1864 - Mary Anne Farrell, 20 yrs
1865 Mary Farrell, 21 yrs
1865 Mary Farrell 19 yrs

Who is Anne Farrell, the informant at Peter's death
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1879/06528/4881193.pdf

That I don't no. I taught she married Martin Finan but know I think she might not have. If someone could find the place of death of these 3 Mary's you have listed that might help.

As for the Anne Farrell on Peter Farrell death recrod I don't no. I think she could be a granddaughter or Daughter-in-law as I no Peter had 4 son's and of them I no that only 2 are married one died unmarried and the other I can't find any info on.
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 18:16 GMT (UK)
Just wondered if she might be Anne but i doubt it.
I had a quick look to see if she was a witness to her sisters’ marriages but no.
You would have to send for those death certificates to check. I suppose the Mary Ann who died in 1864 would be most likely.
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 18:22 GMT (UK)
Which Farrell son was your great great grandfather?
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: Wexflyer on Monday 06 January 25 18:29 GMT (UK)
Everything so far is entirely consistent with OP being a victim of Anc*stry's notoriously inaccurate "hint" system. Compounded by others accepting these hints.

Here is a question that should have been addressed at the start: what were the social circumstance of the Farrell family? Could Mary Ann possibly have moved 170 km to get married?
My hint - not unless she was of high social class.
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: Robert2022 on Monday 06 January 25 18:34 GMT (UK)
Which Farrell son was your great great grandfather?

My great-great grandfather was Patrick Farrell (Jan 6 1858 Black Bull, Drogheda, Co. Louth, Ireland - May 14 1921 Black Bull, Drogheda, Co. Louth, Ireland)
Title: Re: Finan Family
Post by: heywood on Monday 06 January 25 18:44 GMT (UK)
So not a witness at his marriage either.