RootsChat.Com

Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: 5suns4dortas on Saturday 04 January 25 15:35 GMT (UK)

Title: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: 5suns4dortas on Saturday 04 January 25 15:35 GMT (UK)
Looking for more information about TIMOTHY WHITE  born 1786.  Died 4/4/1870  in Ballynumuddagh Kilworth  County Cork.        Had a brother PATRICK WHITE . Listed on Griffiths Valuation in townland of Ballynamuddagh.   Patrick White  migrated to Australia in 1862 with his wife Mary and  family.

Timothy was a widower when he died.  Seeking info on who he married and where he is buried. 
My eldest son has visited the area over 25 years ago and made contact with relatives.      I believe that  Timothy and Patrick had other siblings named  WILLIAM, MICHAEL, EDWARD AND ELIZABETH.

Any help would be appreciated.
R White
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 16:30 GMT (UK)
OP - you don't mention their religion?

Can this be your Timothy?

7 March 1830, John White baptized Kilworth, parents Timothy and Johana Crowley.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634524#page/4/mode/1up (https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634524#page/4/mode/1up)
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 16:33 GMT (UK)
But baptism of Elizabeth White, 3 October 1833, says mother is Johana Connolly
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634524#page/20/mode/1up (https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634524#page/20/mode/1up)
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 16:38 GMT (UK)
Many White baptisms and marriages in Kilworth parish registers. OP should get a subscription to RootsIreland for indexing.
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 16:40 GMT (UK)
Where does "Araglin" come into the picture? Not mentioned in main body of OP's post.
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: 5suns4dortas on Saturday 04 January 25 17:00 GMT (UK)
As far as I know the White Family resided in Araglin.    Their religion is Catholic and members of the family were baptised at Kilworth  church.    These baptisms were of the family of Patrick White and his wife Mary nee Tobin.
the Whites are my husbands ancestors. 
thanks for the replies.

Ruth White

Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 17:15 GMT (UK)
Link for Araglin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Araglin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Araglin)

It is not a townland. A hamlet,  directly adjoining counties Waterford and Tipperary.
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 17:23 GMT (UK)
Link for Ballynamuddagh townland
https://www.townlands.ie/cork/condons-and-clangibbon/leitrim/castlecooke/ballynamuddagh/ (https://www.townlands.ie/cork/condons-and-clangibbon/leitrim/castlecooke/ballynamuddagh/)

Close to the hamlet of Araglin.
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Saturday 04 January 25 17:27 GMT (UK)

Locations of Kilworth and Araglin.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6219683#map=13/52.19182/-8.17383


Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 17:38 GMT (UK)
The hamlet of Araglin lies in the townland of Gortnaskehy
https://www.townlands.ie/cork/condons-and-clangibbon/macroney/gortnaskehy/gortnaskehy/ (https://www.townlands.ie/cork/condons-and-clangibbon/macroney/gortnaskehy/gortnaskehy/)
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 17:49 GMT (UK)
Michael and Timothy White are listed as sharing a 24 Irish acre farm in Ballynamuddagh in the tythe valuation of the civil parish of Leitrim in 1828
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625691/004625691_00280.pdf (http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625691/004625691_00280.pdf)
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 17:54 GMT (UK)
EDIT - This is different civil parish - disregard

There are no Whites in the 1834 tythe valuation of the townland of Gurtnaskehy.

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=&firstname=&county=&townland=Gurtnaskehy&parish=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=&pager.offset=0 (http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=&firstname=&county=&townland=Gurtnaskehy&parish=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=&pager.offset=0)

Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Saturday 04 January 25 18:05 GMT (UK)
EDIT - This is different civil parish - disregard

There are no Whites in the 1834 tythe valuation of the townland of Gurtnaskehy.

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=&firstname=&county=&townland=Gurtnaskehy&parish=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=&pager.offset=0 (http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=&firstname=&county=&townland=Gurtnaskehy&parish=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=&pager.offset=0)

Indeed..it's in the civil parish of Kilmacdonogh.
Gurtnaskehy
https://www.townlands.ie/cork/imokilly/kilmacdonogh/kilmacdonogh/gortnaskehy/


Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 18:08 GMT (UK)
There are two entries for Patrick White in the 1827 tythe valuation of the civil parish of Macroney. Araglin lies in Macroney.
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=white&firstname=&county=&parish=Macroney&townland=&search=Search (http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=white&firstname=&county=&parish=Macroney&townland=&search=Search)

The townland names in the tythe valuation do not match with the later official OSI names used in Griffiths Valuation, the townlands.ie (http://townlands.ie) site etc.
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 18:15 GMT (UK)
Valuation Office records for Whites in the civil parish of Macroney, 1848-1850
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tkf/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tkf/)
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 18:20 GMT (UK)
Valuation Office records for Whites in the civil parish of Leitrim 1848-1851.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tkg/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tkg/)

Note that Patrick, Timothy and Michael White are all listed under Ballynamuddagh.
Specifically, Patrick replaces Michael. Perhaps his son?
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 18:26 GMT (UK)
In Griffiths Valuation for the townland of Ballynamuddagh, published 1852, Timothy and Patrick White are both listed twice.
They are shown as equally sharing the farm detailed in lot 8, and in addition, each had separate  farm lots.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tkh/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tkh/)
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: 5suns4dortas on Saturday 04 January 25 18:45 GMT (UK)
Michael, Timothy and  Patrick White were brothers.    Michael migrated to U S  A , Patrick  came to Australia and Timothy stayed in Ireland.   He died  4/4/1870 in Ballynamuddagh according to his death registration.   

thanks for the Griffiths Valuation page.
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 18:48 GMT (UK)
Looking for more information about TIMOTHY WHITE  born 1786.  Died 4/4/1870  in Ballynumuddagh Kilworth  County Cork.        Had a brother PATRICK WHITE . Listed on Griffiths Valuation in townland of Ballynamuddagh.   Patrick White  migrated to Australia in 1862 with his wife Mary and  family.

If Timothy White was aged 84 when he died in 1870, then how likely is it that he had a brother Patrick emigrating to Australia in 1862? Would Patrick not have been a tad old?
When did Patrick die, and how old?

The Valuation office records showing Patrick succeeding Michael White in Ballynamuddagh suggests that Timothy and Michael were brothers, and Patrick was Michael's son?

Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 18:55 GMT (UK)
First child of Patrick White and Mary Tobin, baptised Kilworth 26/12/1841 was named Michael.
Suggesting that Patrick was the son of Michael (due to Irish naming patterns).
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: 5suns4dortas on Saturday 04 January 25 19:03 GMT (UK)
Patrick White was born  approx 1819-1820y.    Married Mary Tobin  circa 1839/40.    Michael was their first child and baptised at Kilworth . Have that record etc. 

They arrived in Australia in 1862 and settled at DEAN  near Ballarat Victoria and took up land. he died at Dean in  1895.
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: 5suns4dortas on Saturday 04 January 25 19:05 GMT (UK)
I would say that Patrick was most likely the youngest of the brothers.
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 04 January 25 19:06 GMT (UK)
Patrick White was born  approx 1819-1820y.   

Well, that shows right there that he wasn't a (full) brother of Timothy White, born ca. 1786. That timespan isn't possible for one woman.
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: 5suns4dortas on Sunday 05 January 25 11:04 GMT (UK)
Michael White  born 1819/1820 doesn't seem to fit where I am looking.     He married a Mary Tobin      from Mitchelstown  circa 11839/1840.  Corighane?
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: 5suns4dortas on Sunday 05 January 25 11:08 GMT (UK)
Patrick Whites  father was named Michael White.  His mothers name has been given as a Helen Lowhel.    No information on birth,marriage or death date know.   I presume that they were from  Kilworth area.    Some family talk about       Kilcrumper area.
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 05 January 25 11:21 GMT (UK)

Quote
Some family talk about       Kilcrumper area.

The civil parish of Kilcrumper mostly to the west of Kilworth.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/9727832#map=12/52.1760/-8.2126


Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 05 January 25 18:33 GMT (UK)
Patrick Whites  father was named Michael White.  His mothers name has been given as a Helen Lowhel.   

Who gave these names - where/when?

Why are you drip-feeding information you have?

If Patrick's father was Michael, then isn't it evident that his father is the Michael named on the 1828 tythe valuation, and also on the 1840's Valuation Office material, as I have argued for some time now?
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 05 January 25 18:38 GMT (UK)
Michael White  born 1819/1820 doesn't seem to fit where I am looking.     He married a Mary Tobin      from Mitchelstown  circa 11839/1840.  Corighane?

There is potential confusion here. Which Michael White is this?
Where did he end up, when did he die?

A Michael White born 1819/20 obviously can't be the Michael listed in the 1828 tythe valuation. Probably not the one replaced by Patrick in the 1840s Valuation Office material either.

Seems to me that what is happening here is a simply a standard feature with Irish families - certain names ran in families, such that the same names appeared in succeeding generations.
Title: Re: Timothy WHITE Araglin. Kilworth Cork Ireland
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 05 January 25 18:41 GMT (UK)
Michael White  born 1819/1820 doesn't seem to fit where I am looking.     He married a Mary Tobin      from Mitchelstown  circa 11839/1840.  Corighane?

I presume this is a typo, or is it a correction? Previously you said PATRICK White married Mary Tobin, giving same dates.