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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => West Lothian (Linlithgowshire) => Topic started by: CanScot on Saturday 28 December 24 18:38 GMT (UK)

Title: Missing death certificate
Post by: CanScot on Saturday 28 December 24 18:38 GMT (UK)
I'm trying to locate a death certificate for Elizabeth Fraser (maiden name Simpson) who married James Fraser on 7/2/1842 in Boness. I found them (plus four children) on the 1851 census but then she was listed as deceased on the marriage certificate of one of her sons in 1862. Her husband had married again in 1858 and was identified as a widower. I did find him on the 1861 census and, due to the age of the children listed, Elizabeth was still alive in 1853. I've tried searching 1853-1858 but no luck. Does anyone have any suggestions? Many thanks.
Title: Re: Missing death certificate
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 28 December 24 19:27 GMT (UK)
How old was she in 1851.  What was the name of the child b 1853
Title: Re: Missing death certificate
Post by: CanScot on Saturday 28 December 24 19:32 GMT (UK)
Elizabeth is 29 on the 1851 census. The child born is 1853 is also called Elizabeth.
Title: Re: Missing death certificate
Post by: David Nicoll on Saturday 28 December 24 19:54 GMT (UK)
Do you know which parish they were from?
The only likely birth for a child seems to be in Carriden in West Lothian.
Title: Re: Missing death certificate
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 28 December 24 20:19 GMT (UK)
I have to admit defeat re any death entry. 

Can't see any birth for Elizabeth either
Title: Re: Missing death certificate
Post by: CanScot on Sunday 29 December 24 15:27 GMT (UK)
The parish is Carriden but can find neither a birth or death certificate.

Thanks for trying. I'll add it to my list of mysteries!
Title: Re: Missing death certificate
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 29 December 24 16:29 GMT (UK)
Have you tried the Kirk Session records just in case there is a mortcloth payment on 1853 or 1854?
Title: Re: Missing death certificate
Post by: CanScot on Sunday 29 December 24 18:17 GMT (UK)
Thanks - I will have a look.
Title: Re: Missing death certificate
Post by: lanarman on Monday 30 December 24 21:00 GMT (UK)
I took a look in the Kirk Session records and found no records available for that time period. (perhaps you would have to contact the parish, itself?).
There is a possibility for a death registered in 1857 in Bathgate, West Lothian for an ISABELLA Fraser, aged 33 (ie. born c. 1824). The age is "close" to your Elizabeth, the time frame would be logical for her widowed husband to remarry in 1858 and Bathgate is only 10 miles from Carriden. Interpretation of "bad handwriting" in the death record could result in Isabella as Elizabeth, in reality.
The only way to check would be to pay and download the image.  Your choice, obviously.
Title: Re: Missing death certificate
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 30 December 24 21:41 GMT (UK)
I took a look in the Kirk Session records and found no records available for that time period. (perhaps you would have to contact the parish, itself?).
Most likely, then, that the records for that time period have not survived.
Title: Re: Missing death certificate
Post by: lanarman on Monday 30 December 24 22:59 GMT (UK)
Clarification- regarding my comments for Kirk Session records for Carriden:
1. the ACCOUNTS for this parish for the years you are interested in do not exist.
2. the MINUTES for Carriden do exist and I have browsed them (briefly) and do not see any mortcloth entries. The minutes deal with numerous antenuptial fornications. I would assume that mortcloth dues would be listed under ACCOUNTS (?)
3. Communion Rolls record a Mrs. James Fraser (Helen Ballentine) who was admitted by "YC" in Feb. 1863. Her attendance was recorded for Feb./63 and then again in July/66. In the two columns dated  Aug/67 and Feb/68 it looks like the word "dead" or "deceased" was entered. There are no more entries for her after that.   You could check this on the SP website.
Title: Re: Missing death certificate
Post by: lanarman on Monday 30 December 24 23:53 GMT (UK)
In the church and statutory marriage records I find 5 James Fraser marriages in all of West Lothian between 1842 and 1869:
1. 1842 to Elizabeth Simpson in Bo'Ness
2. 1845 to Marion Black in Whitburn
3. 1858 to Margaret Nimmo in Linlithgow Burgh
4. 1862 to Helen Ballantine in Carriden
5. 1869 to Catherine Balfour in Carriden.

I assume these are 2 different James Frasers?
Title: Re: Missing death certificate
Post by: CanScot on Tuesday 31 December 24 10:13 GMT (UK)
I think they are the marriages of three different James Frasers:
- Elizabeth Simpson and Margaret Nimmo
- Marion Black
- Helen Ballantine and Catherine Balfour. Also married Mary Hunter/Stein in 1883.

Helen Ballantine died in January 1868 (aged 26) of TB so that would match with what you found in the Communion Rolls records. On her death certificate it states she was ill for 12 months. I also found a Helen Ballantine (age 18) on the 1861 census living in the household of Janet Balfour. Helen is listed as a niece. Not sure if this is the same one.

I'll have a look at the record you found. Appreciate the help.
Title: Re: Missing death certificate
Post by: Dee_T on Friday 14 March 25 12:27 GMT (UK)
Is it possible she didn't die in Scotland and therefore her death is registered elsewhere?