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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: sft456 on Saturday 28 December 24 14:32 GMT (UK)
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Hi
"The daughters of James and Penelope MARTIN (nee SKIPP)" m 17.2.1774 were, according to a histiry of that name:
1 Penelope - 1777 poss bap 10.10.1777 - 30.1.1840 poss unmarried
2 Catherine (1) - b ? poss bur 1787 (a dau of theirs but no retails)
3 Catherine (2) - 1781 bap 6.7.1781 - ? m? d?
4 Elizabeth - 1783 - 1844 m Charles Edward Hanford - we have found their details
5 Anne - b ? m? d?
Unfortunately we have been unable to find any further details for these daughters; any help would be apprecaited
Thanks
sft456
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Where in Gloucestershire were they :-\
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Parents James and Penelope Martin (all transcripts - not original)
Baptisms
John, 27 Nov 1774, Ledbury, Hereford
Joseph, 20 Sep 1766, Ledbury, Hereford
Penelope, 10 Oct 1777, Stafford
Catherine, 6 July 1781, Worcestershire
James, 28 Nov 1788, Overbury, Worcestershire
There is a note against James on the 17 Feb 1774 marriage, St Michael Ledbury
" Groom of Whitehall, Mdx)
The baptisms cover 3 counties, but the less than common given name "Penelope" is a link.
Is this the family?
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Penelope Martin 10/10/1777 d. 27/10/1870; Katherine Martin 8/6/1781 d,1787; James Martin 27/10/1778 Whitehall d.1870;Eliza Martin 1783-1844;Anne Martin 22/6/1785 Downing Street d.1839;
John Martin 1774 d 1832 John was an MP. This is all from online trees, so needs checking out!
Regards
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The baptisms cover 3 counties, but the less than common given name "Penelope" is a link.
But none of them are in Gloucestershire where this is posted. Perhaps it needs moving to another board :-\
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The baptisms cover 3 counties, but the less than common given name "Penelope" is a link.
But none of them are in Gloucestershire where this is posted. Perhaps it needs moving to another board :-\
That none referred to Gloucestershire was why I drew attention to "Penelope" as the reason for presenting them.
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Penelope - 1777 poss bap 10.10.1777 - 30.1.1840 poss unmarried
baptism image is on Ancestry. James noted as Esq. at Overbury, Worcestershire
Her will is on ancestry. 1840.
She is a spinster of Norton in the parish of Brendon.
Burial register says Norton House
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Catherine, 6 July 1781, Worcestershire
Image in Overbury reg says she was born ‘At their house in Whitehall, Westminster” privately baptised there, certificate annexed at rear of book (haven’t found that yet) but thought proper to record baptism in the Overbury Register ‘being one place of their residence’.
Added..certificate is there. Godparents/witnesses are P.Skipp & Mary Martin
Further addition - James’ baptism is similar. What I presume is his certificate is damaged. But witnesses are ….Blackwell & Richard Stone.
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Here's dad -
https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1790-1820/member/martin-james-1738-1810
I notice "Overbury, Gloucestershire" appearing in some 18th Century publications.
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5 Anne - b ? m? d?
Anne is Anna.
Baptised St. Margaret's, Westminster, 23 July 1785
And buried as Anna Martin of Norton House (same as Penelope) in 1839
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Adding "Anna" to the 5 posted at #2 it produces 3 sons and 3 daughters - matches the Parliamentary record.
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James senior’s will is also available.
John, Joseph, James, Penelope, Anna & Elizabeth all named.
So the Parliamentary record doesn’t include Catherine. (I think there was just the one Catherine)
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The News (London) - 11 Feb 1839
On the 4th inst, at Bredous (Bredon's?) Norton, Worcestershire, aged 53, Anna Martin, daughter of the late James Martin of Overbury.
Worcestershire Chronicle, 5 Feb 1840
Jan 30th at Colwall, Herefordshire,** Penelope Martin, of Bredon's Norton, Worcestershire, eldest daughter of the late James Martin of Overtbury
** at her brother's house
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Thanks all for your help
Apologies for being in the wrong County, James being MP for Tewkesbury (only 1 of many Martins), we considered that he had a place there & some kids were b & bap there
An excerp from a History this family
The second son of James and Penelope was Joseph, who got married to Sarah Harrlet, daughter of Robert Hewit, Esquire of Whitehaven and the third son was James who on September 20, 1819, got married to Julia Vignoles, daughter of Reverend John Vignoles, from Portarlington. The daughters of James and Penelope were Penelope, Catherine, Elizabeth, and Anne
James was apparently a friend of William Pitt the Younger, though political opposites & had a house in Downing Street next door. I don't know for how long or any dates
All baps as you say need to be checked
Catherine/Katherine was b 8.6.1781 in Downing St - is that right & bap 6.7.1781 there privately. I did note somewhere (perhaps FS) that she was bap in Worcs Cathedral. Can you tell me where she was bur?
Anna Martin b/bap 22/6/1785 Downing Street d 4.2.1839 Norton House, Bredon, Worcs. Is that a bap or b? Can you tell me where she was bur?
You stated Penelope Martin bap 10/10/1777 d. 27/10/1870, yet also stated was "Her will is on Ancestry. 1840" She was a spinster of Norton House in the parish of Brendon Norton, Worcs. Burial register says Norton House.
Did she therefore d 30.1.1840 Ledbury, Herefordshire (as FreeBMD)? & then bur in Norton?
Bredon has a famous tythe barn, which I once had to survey as a student!
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Catherine/Katherine was b 8.6.1781 in Downing St - is that right & bap 6.7.1781 there privately. I did note somewhere (perhaps FS) that she was bap in Worcs Cathedral. Can you tell me where she was bur?
No record I see has her as Katherine.
No record says Downing Street. Presume that is surmised if it is known their residence at Whitehall at that time was Downing Street.
I didn’t see a baptism in Worcester Cathedral
Just the private baptism 6/7/1781 in a chapel that is very faint on the cert.
Followed by recording it in the Overbury register.
Buried at Overbury.
Added..I don’t see the date of birth specifically mentioned. Just her baptism.
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Same comment re Downing Street for Anna.
She was buried at Bredon Chapelry of Norton, Worcestershire on 9 Feb 1839
Penelope also buried at the Bredon Chapelry. 6 Feb 1840
And see Hanes’ reply #12
You (We :))have done a lot of work on this Martin Family. I presume you do have some of the wills? Many are free at the National Archives
Eg James in 1810
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D202085
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BROWNE'SGENERAL LAW LIST FOR THE YEAR 1793
"Tewkwsbury, Glouc. 108 (sat 5d)- M.P. James Martin, Esq, a banker in London; and a Director of the Million bank; Overbury, Glouc. Downing Street"
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You (We :))have done a lot of work on this Martin Family. I presume you do have some of the wills? Many are free at the National Archives
I began this Tree last year, then returned ro it this year. I have asked the questions I have because, I have for a second time failed to find the answers. The Tree is large with most of it done by me with limited searching facilities, hence my approaching this site for help. I'm not quite sure why you make the comment above?
I have downloaded some of the Wills, not easy to read. This Family were not always keen to subscribe to the Censae which makes it more difficult, These Wills only assist to an extent and don't answer b/m/ dates etc etc
The Obits, Newpaper articles etc are more important to this Family Tree and I have no access to these
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I didn’t mean to offend, I just wanted to point out, incase you were not aware, that there were wills available and that they could be valuable sources of information. And that in this instance at least some were freely available, because I have the impression (which may be incorrect) you don’t have subs to subscription sites.
For instance the Will of James names every one of his living children.
It does take practice to be able to read them. But that is where the handwriting board comes in handy.
He left a lot of money, and also tontines on the lives of the children. I found it interesting.