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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: ValJJJ on Friday 27 December 24 09:57 GMT (UK)

Title: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Friday 27 December 24 09:57 GMT (UK)
Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas.  :)

This query relates to post https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=880729.msg7531868#msg7531868 (where the original image is attached) that is part of a much longer thread about Ivy Caldwell
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=880505.0
There is also a short thread about her here: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=880516.msg7534752#msg7534752

*Sandra* discovered William Caldwell marrying:
From: Quebec, Canada, Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1968
William Caldwell - Birth Date   22 Jul 1862 Blythswood, Glasgow, Lanark,Scotland
Father  William Caldwell - Mother  Mary Wilson.
Marriage - William Caldwell and Jeanette Isabel Brown. Montreal Quebec .
27 June 1900
Wm Caldwell - Event Type   Mariage (Marriage)
Marriage Date   1900 arriage Place   Montreal (Montréal), Québec (Quebec), Canada
Marriage Church Saint James; Montréal
Place of Worship or Institution   Methodist Saint James
Religion   Methodist
Spouse    J J Brown

My interest is in William Caldwell as I have this but nothing about his mariner life, or his death.

19 Sep 1885: Second mate. Board of Trade cert of competency as Second Mate in merchant service. Registered at the office of the Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen.  Cert no 016087

1 Apr 1887: First mate. Board of Trade cert of competency as First Mate in merchant service. Registered at the office of the Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen.  Cert no 016087

31 May 1889: Master. Board of Trade cert of competency as Master in merchant service. Registered at the office of the Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen.  Cert no 016087

*Sandra* (reply 144 on the very long thread) discovered news cuttings including the wedding in 1900 - The South Bend Tribune, Indiana, Wed, 27 Jun 1900 Page 3 reported that county auditor John Brown returned from his sister's wedding in Quebec; Mr Caldwell was first mate on the Oceanic of the Dominion Line, and Mr and Mrs Caldwell were sailing to England today.

Also she found in 1904 June 13 South Bend Tribune: Court cases, including Mrs Jeanette Isabel Caldwell granted a divorce from William Caldwell in chambers on a charge of lack of support. The plaintiff is a member of the firm Caldwell & Anderson.

I've looked at Ships List website, where it states there were two different Oceanic ships.  One built 1870 for the White Star Line and scrapped 1896 in Belfast, and one built 1899 for the White Star Line, with the maiden voyage 6/9/1899 Liverpool to Queenstown (now Cobh), Ireland and Boston, continuing with this route until 1907.  The Ships List also has info on the different sales, ownerships and combination of lines in this era, and it seems that the Dominion Line name continued to be used, but their fleet list doesn't show Oceanic there.  There is a route for one of the lines Liverpool-Queenstown-Quebec though.

I wonder now if I've assumed the happy couple sailed on the Oceanic?  He was first mate on it, but doesn't mean they travelled on it back to England. Perhaps he had a perk of discounted travel, or not, but could have sailed on any boat.

I have been looking unsuccessfully for him as crew on any ship at all, and cannot find his death, but Caldwell is a common surname in the area of his birth. Of course being a mariner he could have died at sea or in a port abroad.

Can any of you find him anywhere please? To save you wading through the very long thread, there is little to be gained by searching for his wife. She was at her half-brother's house in Birkenhead, England in the 1901 census, with no William (at sea or already separated?).

Thanks for reading.






Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: carolineasb on Wednesday 01 January 25 11:45 GMT (UK)
There is a William Caldwell death in the British Columbia records aged 40 (I know a bit out) on 24 March 1901 in Revelstoke. There is no image but these are the details:

Registration Number:1901-09-173606
BC Archives Mfilm Number:B13106GSU
Mfilm Number:1927134

Perhaps someone on here and living in the area could find out more? Or if you write to the Records there?
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 12:07 GMT (UK)
There is a William Caldwell death in the British Columbia records aged 40 (I know a bit out) on 24 March 1901 in Revelstoke. There is no image but these are the details:

Registration Number:1901-09-173606
BC Archives Mfilm Number:B13106GSU
Mfilm Number:1927134

Perhaps someone on here and living in the area could find out more? Or if you write to the Records there?

Sorry, this is not the correct William Caldwell. This one was born in Ontario and had a wife and children.

FIND A GRAVE  Obit attached.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/194934513/william-hugh-caldwell

Sandra
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 01 January 25 12:43 GMT (UK)
Thanks both of you for looking.
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 12:54 GMT (UK)

Anything else on William Caldwell parents (William Caldwell and Mary Wilson), any siblings, any Aunts and Uncles ?

Sandra
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 01 January 25 12:59 GMT (UK)
On the to do list but such a common name.  Excuses, excuses....
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 01 January 25 13:44 GMT (UK)
William Caldwell-Mary Wilson:
Marriage date 20 Aug 1861.
Marriage place: Blythswood,Glasgow,Lanark,Scotland

Haven't spotted any other children though.
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 01 January 25 14:22 GMT (UK)
Here's the transcript.
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 14:45 GMT (UK)

Yes, saw those and a newspaper account of the marriage (1835)  of the parents John Wilson (Merchant of Belfast)  and Mary Mathie.

Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 14:49 GMT (UK)


Ancestry transcription (not seen the image) 1861 census 15 Cathcart Street. Blythswood, Glasgow.


John Wilson 22 Head
Mary Wilson   49   Wife
Mary Wilson 24 Daughter
Mary Mathie 20 Niece

Sandra
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 01 January 25 14:51 GMT (UK)
Thanks for those.

Odd occupations on the William C/Mary W marriage.  William went from a law clerk to a mariner? Edit: wrong, see later post. Mixing up generations.  ::)
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 14:52 GMT (UK)
Ancestry transcription (not seen the image) 1851 Census 11 Cathcart Street, Glasgow

John Wilson 50 Head.  Calenderer (?) Employing 5 Men & 5 & Boys
Mary Wilson   39   Wife
Mary Wilson 14 Daughter
John Wilson 12 Son
Agnes Boyd 16 Uncle

Sandra
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 15:00 GMT (UK)
Ancestry transcription (not seen image) 1851 census 11 Cathcart Street. Glasgow

William Caldwell 44 Head. Cabinet Maker & Upholsterer Employing 10 Men 2 Women & A Boy
Jean Caldwell 40 Wife
Wm Caldwell   16   Son. Student In Wmoersety ? Of Glasgow
Bethia Caldwell 14 Daughter
Christina Caldwell 11 Daughter
James Caldwell 9 Son
Jean Caldwell 7 Daughter
Walter Caldwell 5 Son
George Caldwell 2 Son
Ann Mcgregor 17 Servant

Sandra
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 15:04 GMT (UK)

1871 census    137 Sauchiehall St. Glasgow

William Caldwell   63   Head.    Cabinet Maker & Uphotsterer.
Bethia Caldwell 34 Daughter
Walter Caldwell 24 Son
George Caldwell 22 Son
John Charles Wilson 6 Grandson
Sarah Mcguire 8 Servant

1881 census 187 West Princes St. Kelvin. Glasgow

Bethia H Caldwell   44
Christina R Caldwell   41
George Caldwell   32
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 01 January 25 15:12 GMT (UK)
Some good finds Sandra - I'll take a further look.

16/4/1902. Captain W Caldwell, age 42 and wife, 40 on Oceanic from Liverpool to New York.  Possibly the right Caldwells?  Ticket number 7321 against his name, and nothing against hers.  If the ticket number refers to the mariner certificate then it's the wrong person.
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 01 January 25 15:19 GMT (UK)
Ancestry transcription (not seen image) 1851 census 11 Cathcart Street. Glasgow

William Caldwell 44 Head. Cabinet Maker & Upholsterer Employing 10 Men 2 Women & A Boy
Jean Caldwell 40 Wife
Wm Caldwell   16   Son. Student In Wmoersety ? Of Glasgow
Bethia Caldwell 14 Daughter
Christina Caldwell 11 Daughter
James Caldwell 9 Son
Jean Caldwell 7 Daughter
Walter Caldwell 5 Son
George Caldwell 2 Son
Ann Mcgregor 17 Servant

Sandra

FindMyPast transcript shows student in University of Glasgow.
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 01 January 25 15:35 GMT (UK)
Uni of Glasgow, then law clerk, then mariner?  Hmm.
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 01 January 25 15:59 GMT (UK)
Uni of Glasgow, then law clerk, then mariner?  Hmm.

Mixing up the generations.
William Caldwell cabinet maker, son William Caldwell at uni, and then a law clerk, and grandson William the mariner.
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 18:50 GMT (UK)
1861 census 148 W. Nile St. Glasgow

William Caldwell   26 Law Clerk General
Bethial Caldwell   24
Christina Caldwell   21
James Caldwell   19 Mechanical Engineer.
Walter Caldwell   15
Mary Kunan   19

The daughter Bethia birth

Bethia Houston Caldwell - Baptism Date   11 Mar 1837
Baptism Place   , Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Father   William Caldwell Mother   Jean Caldwell

Daughter Christina Robertson Caldwell

Christina Robertson Caldwell.  Birth Date   24 May 1839
Birth Place   , Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland -Baptism Place, Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland
Residence Date   1839
Residence Place   Cambusnethan, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Father    William Caldwell
Mother    Jean Caldwell

Christina Robertson Caldwell passed in 1906

Christina Robertson Caldwell - aged 67 years - 1906 Caldwell
644 / 9 / 512 Kelvin

Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 18:54 GMT (UK)


Jean Caldwell passed in 1868

Jean Caldwell - aged 61 years - Houston - 644 / 6 / 502 - Blythswood

Glasgow Daily Mail
Glasgow, Strathclyde, Scotland 
Thu, 12 Nov 1868
Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/article/glasgow-daily-mail/162026377/

Sandra
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 18:57 GMT (UK)

William Caldwell - aged 90 years - Robertson - 1897 -
644 / 9 / 938 -Kelvin

Glasgow Daily Mail
Glasgow, Strathclyde, Scotland 
Wed, 11 Aug 1897
Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/article/glasgow-daily-mail/162026845/

Glasgow Herald
Glasgow, Glasgow, Scotland 
Tue, 10 Aug 1897
Page 1

https://www.newspapers.com/article/glasgow-herald/162026968/

Sandra
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 19:15 GMT (UK)
I think William remarried - looking at this 1881 census Crow Road Turnerfield House. Partick. Lanarkshire

William Caldwell 74   Head. Income from property.
Helen Caldwell   61   Wife.

Scotlands people marriage which fits:-

William Caldwell to Helen Lochhead - 1878 - 562/45  MMN Eastwood

Helen previous marriage :-

Helen Carslile - Marriage Date   27 Mar 1838
Marriage Place   Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Spouse    Walter Lochead


1891 census 27 Kilmailing Ter 3rd Floor Renfrewshire

William Caldwell   84   Head. Cabinet Maker Retired.
Ellen C Caldwell 71 Wife
Janet Bennie 14 Grand Daur (Granddaughter)
Marion Bennie 12 Grand Daur (Granddaughter)

Sandra


Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 20:01 GMT (UK)

William Caldwell - Born 1834 married Mary Wilson in 1861. William born 1862.

1871 census 17 Kelvinhaugh St. Anderston. Glasgow.

Wm Caldwell   36   Head. Writer & Procurator.
Mary Caldwell 34 Wife
Wm Caldwell 8 Son
Jane Gillow 20 Servant

I am wondering if Mary Wilson/Caldwell passed away ?  (I'm missing the death if that's correct)

There is another marriage of William Caldwell to a Mary Mathie in 1875.

William Caldwell - Mary Mathie  - 1875 - 646 / 2 / 83 - Partick

1881 census Partick Lancashire.

William Caldwell   46   Head. Writer Procurator & Enrolled Law Agent.
Mary Caldwell 40   Wife
James Caldwell 1   Son
Edith Caldwell 7 Mo   Daughter
Agnes Campbell 19   Servant

1891 census 6 Clyde View. Partick. Lanarkshire

William Caldwell   56   Head. Writer Procurater & Law Agent.
Mary Caldwell 50 Wife
James Caldwell 11 Son
Edith Caldwell 10 Daur (Daughter)

Sandra
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 20:02 GMT (UK)


1901 census Dumbarton Road Clyde View No 8.  (No William Caldwell)

Mary Caldwell   60   Head
James Caldwell 21 Son
Edith Caldwell 20 Daug (Daughter)
Agnes McSporran 20 Servant

Sandra

Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 20:03 GMT (UK)
Mary Mathie Caldwell passed in 1916

FIND A GRAVE

Sighthill Cemetery
Glasgow, Glasgow City, Scotland


https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/259756391/mary-caldwell
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 20:06 GMT (UK)
6 Clyde View address - same as 1891 census

Glasgow Herald
Glasgow, Glasgow, Scotland 
Tue, 8 Feb 1898
Page 1

https://www.newspapers.com/article/glasgow-herald/162032126/

Glasgow Herald
Glasgow, Glasgow, Scotland 
Wed, 4 May 1898
Page 6

https://www.newspapers.com/article/glasgow-herald/162033617/

Sandra
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 01 January 25 20:33 GMT (UK)

Reply 22 referred

There is another marriage of William Caldwell to a Mary Mathie in 1875.

William Caldwell - Mary Mathie  - 1875 - 646 / 2 / 83 - Partick

The addresses and parents fit............

Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 01 January 25 21:48 GMT (UK)
Sandra I've been offline for a short while and you've found so much.  Thank you.

Lots of avenues to pursue.  There was a James Caldwell witness to Wm Caldwell and Mary Wilson's marriage, presumably James the engineer.
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Thursday 02 January 25 09:04 GMT (UK)
Ancestry transcription (not seen the image) 1851 Census 11 Cathcart Street, Glasgow

John Wilson 50 Head.  Calenderer (?) Employing 5 Men & 5 & Boys
Mary Wilson   39   Wife
Mary Wilson 14 Daughter
John Wilson 12 Son
Agnes Boyd 16 Uncle

Sandra

New occupation to me.  Calenderer="Calender" operator. A machine used to press and finish fabrics or paper between rollers.
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Thursday 02 January 25 09:11 GMT (UK)
The Oceanic written up in the Liverpool Shipping Telegraph and Daily Commercial Advertiser 7 Aug 1899
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 02 January 25 09:34 GMT (UK)

You need an ancestry subscription but here is an ancestry tree of interest.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/166414588/person/342164086916/facts

Thought I had a link for a photograph of a William Caldwell yesterday but I've lost it now  :-\ :-\


Sandra
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Thursday 02 January 25 09:40 GMT (UK)
I've just taken out a sub again (thanks to you Sandra for the link to the £89.99 offer) so will take a look, thanks.

I've noticed a few misleading 'hints' with the other William and Mary Caldwell plus children, in another part of Glasgow - can't remember the area but not Blythwood.

Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 02 January 25 09:50 GMT (UK)
James Caldwell (marine engineer in earlier census) and Edith were together in 1918 Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland, Electoral Registers, 1857-1962 - same address 6 Clydeview. Dunbarton Road. Partick.
James described as a cabinet maker

Edith passed 1966 (single)

Edith Caldwell - aged 86 years -  1966 - 578 / 658 - Ayr

FIND A GRAVE

Sighthill Cemetery Glasgow, Glasgow City, Scotland.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/263833171/edith-caldwell

Sandra
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 02 January 25 10:39 GMT (UK)
Ancestry transcription (not seen the image) 1851 Census 11 Cathcart Street, Glasgow

John Wilson 50 Head.  Calenderer (?) Employing 5 Men & 5 & Boys
Mary Wilson   39   Wife
Mary Wilson 14 Daughter
John Wilson 12 Son
Agnes Boyd 16 Uncle

Sandra

Glasgow Herald
Glasgow, Glasgow, Scotland 
Wed, 10 Jul 1889
Page 1

https://www.newspapers.com/article/glasgow-herald/162081188/

Glasgow Herald
Glasgow, Glasgow, Scotland
Mon, 5 Apr 1858
Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/article/glasgow-herald/162081347/
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 02 January 25 10:42 GMT (UK)

Glasgow Herald
Glasgow, Glasgow, Scotland 
Fri, 10 Jan 1862
Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/article/glasgow-herald/162081249/

Sandra
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: ValJJJ on Thursday 02 January 25 10:44 GMT (UK)
Thanks for more digging. Interesting that he's described as a writer.
Title: Re: Wiliam CALDWELL mariner b1862 Glasgow
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 02 January 25 10:49 GMT (UK)
Jane Caldwell married the brother of Mary Wilson - John Mathie Wilson in 1863.


Glasgow Herald
Glasgow, Glasgow, Scotland
Wed, 7 Oct 1863
Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/article/glasgow-herald/162081301/

Jane Caldwell - Marriage Date   6 Oct 1863
Marriage Place   Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland, United Kingdom
Spouse   John Wilson  (thas John Mathie Wilson)