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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: susiee on Wednesday 25 December 24 01:35 GMT (UK)

Title: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: susiee on Wednesday 25 December 24 01:35 GMT (UK)
I am hoping  i have found    a possible  part of    a   brick wall .

Years ago  i   am thinking i may have incorrectly  picked the right names but the  wrong couple as the parents of   
Rev George HARRIS     Baptised  - 9 Nov 1787  at St George Gravesend  Kent 
Baptism record -   Parents -Thomas HARRIS  FRANCES LUCKHURST
 This Thomas  HARRIS   was  a   Thames  Waterman  -    and  wife  FRANCES LUCKHURST   as his parents .
(  And his Father  was THOMAs HARRIS -Fisherman   ---- The Elder who died  ) 


They also had a son Rev William HARRIS
On his Obit in the Congregation Magazine they also  name his Mother as Frances Luckhurst 
so 2 brothers  who were Congregation Ministers
 
I have been having a number of problems   with this   couple   and have continued to try and see  if there was   an identical  couple   married around the same time  in Gravesend     perhaps .

And i have found another marriage  who  may fit as correct  parents

This   new   marriage  i have found    is
Thomas  HARRIS   & FRANCES LUCKHURST
9 August  1770 Rochester kent
Diocese  of Rochester   Kent England
I am wondering if  some one can help  me find this THOMAS HARRIS    who was married  9 Aug 1770     occupation  .
I am thinking these  brothers  -  the    2 Revs George and William HARRIS  might be the sons  of this couple.   Not the Waterman .


 
Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 25 December 24 02:07 GMT (UK)
FindMyPast has a transcription only but it was by license and Frances was of Milton.

Does the license still exist?

AMENDED
This is the 30 August 1770  apologies
Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 25 December 24 10:07 GMT (UK)
Image for 1770 marriage is here

https://cityark.medway.gov.uk/wwwopacx/wwwopac.ashx?command=getcontent&server=files&value=P159-01-13.pdf  (Page 38)

But no occupation given.

Everyone signed.
One of the witnesses was a Thos. Harris
Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 25 December 24 10:24 GMT (UK)
Baptism of a Thomas,  son of Thomas & Frances Harris at Milton next Gravesend
Sept 1779. No occupation noted.

https://cityark.medway.gov.uk/wwwopacx/wwwopac.ashx?command=getcontent&server=files&value=P252-01-02(1).pdf  Page 30

And there is another Thomas baptised in Gravesend, St George, July 1773,  son of Thomas. No mother named & no occupation

Page 59 (link below) is the baptism of George you posted. It does not mention Luckhurst.  It does say son of Thomas & Francis Harris. Nor does it mention Thomas’s occupation.

https://cityark.medway.gov.uk/wwwopacx/wwwopac.ashx?command=getcontent&server=files&value=P159-01-02(1).pdf

Page back to the Thomas 1773 record
Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 25 December 24 10:48 GMT (UK)
https://cityark.medway.gov.uk/wwwopacx/wwwopac.ashx?command=getcontent&server=files&value=P252-01-14.pdf  Image 8

Burial of a Frances Harris age 66 of High St, Milton at Milton-next-Gravesend
Might be the mother of 1779 Thomas?
Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 25 December 24 12:32 GMT (UK)
They are not two marriages.  The entry for the Diocese of Rochester on 9 August is the marriage allegation, the entry for Gravesend on 30 Aug is the parish register of marriages.

You can see that by looking up the film number in the FamilySearch catalogue.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKJD-5K42

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVLR-64L

Debra  :D
Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 25 December 24 12:35 GMT (UK)
Where do you get the information that Thomas HARRIS was a Thames waterman?

Debra  :D
Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: susiee on Wednesday 25 December 24 20:52 GMT (UK)
Thanks   so much   everyone.
 i am in Australia   so     have   only just seen all  these   messages  and i will  read them now.
There  was many many many ff the same namES  in  the same area .

Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: susiee on Wednesday 25 December 24 21:03 GMT (UK)
Just going to read them
I   think this Marriage   is a good start as i do recognise the surname GREEN being connected to this family  in the Mariner world   i think GREEN   was THOMAs HARRIS  the Waterman   originla   Master 

30 August 1770
Witnesses Thomas HARRIS
Joseph GREEN

Frances Luckhurst of the Parish of  Milton Thomas Harris Parish of Gravesend
but  no occupation



Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 25 December 24 21:05 GMT (UK)
Where do you get the information that Thomas HARRIS was a Thames waterman?

Debra  :D
Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: susiee on Wednesday 25 December 24 21:15 GMT (UK)
About 20  yr ago   the HARRIS hunters group   
 had  Thomas Harris -WATERMAN _  born about 1747  Gravesend   died abt 1788 married to Frances Luckhursrt

His Father
 Thomas HARRIS  -The Elder - Fisherman
1705 -about 1787
His Will 1787  included daughter Mary married to james Clark  and 4  the boats named   also included Thomas HARRIS   " Waterman  "

I have been trying to   find a good bio  of the Reg George  Harris  or his Brother  that describe  the occ of their Father

Rev William HARRIS obit in Congregational  magazine  describes the names correctly   but no occupation  of their father 
Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 25 December 24 21:38 GMT (UK)
OK, so related to this thread

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=887474.msg7606854#msg7606854
Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: susiee on Thursday 26 December 24 00:22 GMT (UK)
Yes correct
Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: susiee on Thursday 23 January 25 21:00 GMT (UK)
I am hopefully going to be able to load an image
It    is     just  the first para of  the WILL   i am trying to read

  Will   written in 1781 
Probate date     Dec 31 ----1788
THOMAs HARRIS 
I Thomas Harris  , Mariner   on board ......Ship  .......... Bournemouth ??
.....................



He  mentions  Frances as living in London  in 1781 when the Will was written  and in 1788  at Probate she had already re married   a   JOHN  JOHNSON

But i would like to   know the name of  the Ship he was on. 


I am thought initially   the Ship he names   is the   BOURNMOUTH   but i am not sure  i am reading the first para correctly  . So hopefully  this will load it  just may not

I have tried to load this   quite small   image  a number of times even chopped it into  a tiny file i have constant problems trying to load onto here not sure why
.
Would some one please  see if you can find it  and read the first para   i will try and load it again
No   i t just wont load im sorry
Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 23 January 25 22:55 GMT (UK)
It is H. M. Ship Monmouth. Capt. James Alms esq, Cmdr

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D408280


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Monmouth_(1772)
Title: Re: THOMAS HARRIS & FRANCES LUCKHURST - 2 marriages identical names same month
Post by: susiee on Wednesday 29 January 25 19:54 GMT (UK)
 
I have 2 THOMAS  HARRIS --- THAMES  WATERMEN
 I am trying to work out if these  2 Watermen are the same person or not .

The Record Set is
The Company of Watermen & Lightermen  of the River Thames  Binding records --By R,J  Cottrell

4289 Thomas   Harris  --05 /04  /1728 /  Barnes       -    Thomas   HARRIS
4295 Thomas HARRIS  -- 25/10/ 1728 /  St Olaves   -     Hugh Nightingale 

Is it possible they are the same ?
If not i suspect the top one  is Thomas and his Father --but unproven  really