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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: snowybeatle on Monday 23 December 24 14:02 GMT (UK)

Title: Help needed in deciphering old wedding record handwriting
Post by: snowybeatle on Monday 23 December 24 14:02 GMT (UK)
Hi all
Is anyone able to help with the deciphering of this old text from an ancestor's wedding record, dated 1677?
Any help will be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Steve
Title: Re: Help needed in deciphering old wedding record handwriting
Post by: horselydown86 on Monday 23 December 24 16:19 GMT (UK)
I've made a start.  Is there a standard form for recording a marriage in this community?

It's obviously not standard C of E wording.  If there is a standard form it should help with the difficulties presented by parts of the text.

*********************************************************************************

In the yeare 1677


This is to Certifie the truth to all people that Richard

Snowball of Espersheills and Ann [Nill?son] of

the same place, haveing Intention of Mariage According to the [ordi?]

of god and gods Joyneing they did lay it before the mens and [womens?]

Meetings before whom theire mariage being propounded then [th?]

Meettings [desireings?] them to [?ice] a time and soe they [makeing?] [en?] [?]

the time whether the man is free from any other woman & she free from any other

man...
Title: Re: Help needed in deciphering old wedding record handwriting
Post by: snowybeatle on Monday 23 December 24 16:55 GMT (UK)
Hello horselydown86

Thank you and a wonderful start.
It's certainly not standard C of E wording, which probably is not overly helpful.

My research shows the marriage is likely to be to Ann Wilkinson.

I've no idea about how this community records a marriage. I thought the forum had closed, so only by chance have I noticed today that it's still running.

Steve
Title: Re: Help needed in deciphering old wedding record handwriting
Post by: Bookbox on Monday 23 December 24 17:21 GMT (UK)
It's certainly not standard C of E wording, which probably is not overly helpful.

With all those witnesses, it must surely be a Quaker marriage.

ADDED
Yes, it is ...

Name   Richard Snowball
Event Type   Marriage
Gender   Male
Spouse   Ann Willkinson
Marriage Date   23 May 1677
Marriage Place   Durham, England
Meeting   Monthly Meeting of Newcastle Upon Tyne, Benfieldside
Piece Description   Piece 1252: Monthly Meeting of Newcastle Upon Tyne, Benfieldside (1653-1820)
Title: Re: Help needed in deciphering old wedding record handwriting
Post by: snowybeatle on Monday 23 December 24 17:28 GMT (UK)
Interesting. Quakerism had only been in existence since 1642, so this was a relatively early Quaker marriage. It adds an interesting perspective to my research.
Thanks Bookbox
Title: Re: Help needed in deciphering old wedding record handwriting
Post by: Bookbox on Monday 23 December 24 17:30 GMT (UK)
The image on Ancestry is a bit clearer (if you have access) ...
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7097/images/41815_b0153574-00040
Title: Re: Help needed in deciphering old wedding record handwriting
Post by: snowybeatle on Monday 23 December 24 17:39 GMT (UK)
Bookbox

A lot better! Confirms the suspected Quaker marriage, too.
Thanks
Title: Re: Help needed in deciphering old wedding record handwriting
Post by: horselydown86 on Monday 23 December 24 17:46 GMT (UK)
I have done almost as far as the witnesses but wasn't aware that things had moved on while I was working.

Here's what I have, using the posted source (for whatever it's worth).

I have to finish now.

************************************************************************

...see [?ond] time they comeing before the mens and womens meetings all

things being found Cleare, a metting of the people of god was [Apointed?]

in the house of ? ?: where they [tooke?] one Another in the p(re)sence of god and

in the presence of his people the 23d day of the 3 month ? ?:

According to the Law of god and the practice of the holy men of god in the

Scriptures of [truth?] promiseing to live faithfully together man & wife

as long as they lived to which they both [?t] theire names...
Title: Re: Help needed in deciphering old wedding record handwriting
Post by: snowybeatle on Monday 23 December 24 17:58 GMT (UK)
 horselydown86

Brilliant! Thank you very much. I'm really grateful for your input.
I think your effort hasn't been hampered by any other progress made. It just confirms the non-C of E format, to what is essentially a Quaker wedding.

Steve

Title: Re: Help needed in deciphering old wedding record handwriting
Post by: Bookbox on Monday 23 December 24 18:02 GMT (UK)
Some background to the Benfieldside Meeting is here ...
https://cameofamilyhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Annexes.pdf
Title: Re: Help needed in deciphering old wedding record handwriting
Post by: snowybeatle on Monday 23 December 24 19:01 GMT (UK)
Bookbox

Fascinating! Thanks for the link

Steve
Title: Re: Help needed in deciphering old wedding record handwriting
Post by: horselydown86 on Tuesday 24 December 24 02:45 GMT (UK)
I have tidied up the text from the Ancestry image:


...haveing Intention of Mariage According to the [ordinance?]

of god and gods Joyneing they did lay it before the mens and womens

Meetings before whom theire mariage being propounded then they

Meettings desireings them to waite a time and soe they makeing enquire betwixt

the time whether the man is free from any other woman & she free from any other

man soe A second time they comeing before the mens and womens meetings all

things being found Cleare, a metting of the people of god was Apointed

in the house of J C: where they tooke one Another in the p(re)sence of god and

in the presence of his people the 23d day of the 3d month [&? G?]:

According to the Law of god and the practice of the holy men of god in the

Scriptures of truth promiseing to live faithfully together man & wife

as long as they lived to which they both seet theire names [&?] we are

wittnesses of the Same; whose names are hereto Subscribed the day and

yeare aforesaide



The witness surnames in order and omitting duplicates are:

Orsbey, Hopper, [Brantingim?], Lighton, [Wheatlah or Wheatlak], Hunter, Browne, Mallum, [March or Marck]

(Lighton is Cuthbert.)
Title: Re: Help needed in deciphering old wedding record handwriting
Post by: snowybeatle on Tuesday 24 December 24 10:27 GMT (UK)
horselydown86

Brilliant! Thanks for your persistence and accurate deciphering of this script.
It's clearly the Quaker oath, with reference to the marriage banns being called prior to the wedding.

Save for one anomaly, which I'm working on, Richard Snowball is my 8th paternal great grandfather. I've tried to get some background context to all of the ancestors in my family tree (rather than a mere collection of dates) so it's been a most useful exercise and finding early Quaker roots is interesting.
Much appreciated and Happy Christmas.  :)

Steve