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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Siely on Saturday 21 December 24 18:59 GMT (UK)

Title: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: Siely on Saturday 21 December 24 18:59 GMT (UK)
Alice Spinks as a witness at the marriage of Dorothy May Morris in 1919 to Walter Ernest Senior.

Is this Alice Spinks related to Jimmy Spinks leader of the Hoxton Mob ?
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 21 December 24 19:37 GMT (UK)
Look up  "Jimmy Spinks of the Hoxton Mob" on censuses & determine whether he had a sister Alice.  Use the 1921 census to compare her details with the one who married Morris

I note you have removed  details from your post above but shown them below??
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: Siely on Saturday 21 December 24 19:38 GMT (UK)
Alice Spinks married Johnny Morris and lived at 34 Hobbs Place, Hoxton when Johnny was 42.

(not the Johnny Morris of Animal Magic TV programme)
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 21 December 24 19:41 GMT (UK)
Buy the Alice Spinks marriage cert & establish who her father was then compare it to "Jimmy Spinks" father

What is your connection to these people?
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: Siely on Saturday 21 December 24 19:43 GMT (UK)
My connection is that one of the other witnesses at marriage of Walter & Dorothy is in my family.

What is Walter's occupation ?
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 21 December 24 19:46 GMT (UK)
So you have no actual connection to Spinks?

"Johnny Morris"  Please ensure you give the name they married as - in this case John W Morris

The marriage was 1920 so look them up on the 1921 census to establish her details then check earlier censuses for the names of her siblings

"what is Walters occupation"

If you know the names of the witnesses you must know what Walters occupation was as you must have seen the marriage cert
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 21 December 24 19:56 GMT (UK)
The Spinks/Morris marriage cert is available on Ancestry
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: Siely on Saturday 21 December 24 19:59 GMT (UK)
Okay I closed my ancestry account because of a series of silly hints to very high ranking titled people.
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 21 December 24 20:06 GMT (UK)
Ancestry hints are just that - hints.  It's up to the user to decide whether they are relevant.  You could subscribe to Find My Past if you are unhappy with Ancestry

As Alice Spinks was simply a witness & has no actual connection to your FH you will find most public libraries have free Ancestry access so you can research her FH yourself & see if she is connected to the Hoxton Mobster

As you are already aware - all census info is free on Family Search

https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list?cqs=england+census
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: Siely on Saturday 21 December 24 20:09 GMT (UK)
Okay thanks.   My FH is proving to be very difficult due to many having very poor backgrounds.
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 21 December 24 20:19 GMT (UK)
But Alice Spinks is not connected to your FH - nor were the couple whose marriage she witnessed -so why are you wasting time researching her? 

Only the 2nd witness to that marriage is connected to you so if you are having problems with your research it's possible you are getting too involved in irrelevant data - eg Walters occupation

Any adult could witness a marriage without being biologically connected to the couple.  In this case you just appear to have picked up on the unconnected Spinks surname & started wondering if she was connected to a local mobster.





Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: Siely on Saturday 21 December 24 20:57 GMT (UK)
Okay. I was curious what affect on our family lives knowing a mobster might have had.
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 21 December 24 21:35 GMT (UK)
Google Jimmy Spinks - then look him up in census entries.  He was the brother of Alice. 

However - Alice was just another witness at the wedding of a couple with no connection to you so why are you wondering about the possible effect on your family's life?
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: Siely on Saturday 21 December 24 22:28 GMT (UK)
According to Google, Jimmy Spinks had two sisters.
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 22 December 24 07:57 GMT (UK)
Okay thanks.   My FH is proving to be very difficult due to many having very poor backgrounds.

Poverty should not affect your research,  it would not stop them going to church. 
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: Siely on Sunday 22 December 24 08:31 GMT (UK)
We do in fact have some church. However it tends to be non conformism or "low church" as it is sometimes called. It also looks like that several of our FH lines came to Britain as a result of religious wars in Europe.
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: Siely on Friday 18 April 25 09:26 BST (UK)
Alice Spinks as a witness at the marriage of Dorothy May Morris in 1919 to Walter Ernest Senior.

Is this Alice Spinks related to Jimmy Spinks leader of the Hoxton Mob ?

Can anyone confirm the maiden name of the above Alice
 Spinks (wedding witness at Walter Ernest Senior marriage) ?
I think it could be either Naish or Humm , can anybody confirm which please ? Thank you.

SPINKS, ALICE  mmn Humm  1897  J Quarter in STEPNEY 
SPINKS, ALICE  mmn Naish 1897  S Quarter in SHOREDITCH

The right Alice Spinks married Johnny Morris (born 1893) in 1920 and lived at 34 Hobbs Place, Hoxton when Johnny was 42,
1920 Morris/Spinks marriage is on FreeBMD
Morris   John W   Spinks   Shoreditch   1c   129

Daughter Dorothy from above Morris/ Spinks marriage?

Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 18 April 25 11:44 BST (UK)
Deleted
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 18 April 25 11:45 BST (UK)

The right Alice Spinks married Johnny Morris (born 1893) in 1920 and lived at 34 Hobbs Place, Hoxton when Johnny was 42,
1920 Morris/Spinks marriage is on FreeBMD
Morris   John W   Spinks   Shoreditch   1c   129


You have them in the 1939 register that gives Alices date of birth which must rule out one of those births
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 18 April 25 12:48 BST (UK)
How does anybody determine whether a witness to a marriage in 1919 was married or single??  They are a name/signature on a marriage cert.

As already established - that witness has no connection whatsoever to your FH apart from curiosity
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: Siely on Friday 18 April 25 13:32 BST (UK)
It is not just curiosity.
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 18 April 25 13:36 BST (UK)
Replies 4/5/8/10/12 refer
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 18 April 25 15:12 BST (UK)
If you bought the marriage for Alice Spinks you could compare her signature   :-\
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: Siely on Friday 18 April 25 18:32 BST (UK)
Boiled frog syndrome is more than curiousity.
Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 18 April 25 19:01 BST (UK)
I presume then you don’t need any more help with this thread as you have not responded to my replies

Title: Re: Walter Ernest Senior
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 18 April 25 19:20 BST (UK)
Quote
Boiled frog syndrome is more than curiousity.

Per Google - It is a metaphor used to illustrate how people can fail to recognize and react to gradual changes in their environment, even when those changes are ultimately detrimental.

How that metaphor applies to this post is beyond me ???

As already established in earlier replies- the witness to the 1919 marriage is unconnected to your family history but appears to be the sister of a gangster - also unconnected to your FH. 

Whilst it's natural to sometimes research these type of people out of curiosity - it is questionable whether you should waste other peoples time & resources in that research. 

Your local library will have free Ancestry access & you have already been advised to use the birthdate on the 1939 register or buy the marriage cert.