RootsChat.Com

Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: paul_mc on Saturday 21 December 24 17:06 GMT (UK)

Title: Richard PATTERSON & Sarah BROWN
Post by: paul_mc on Saturday 21 December 24 17:06 GMT (UK)
Hi All

Happy Christmas

Looking for some expert help please.

Thomas Noakes Patterson was born Mar 18 1921  at 45 Kyle Street, Glasgow
he had 2 brothers James Shedden Patterson and Richard Alfred Patterson

His parents were -Richard Patterson and Alice Lancaster Patterson (born Shedden)

Ive got all of this information from death certificates and marriage certificates.

Marriage cert for Richard and Alice names Richards parents as Richard Patterson and Sarah Brown. His death certifcate backs this up. On the 1921 Census Richard is listed as being from Cork, County Cork.

As I can find no trace of his birth cert and nothing on his parents on Scotlands People I assume this to be true

I'm trying to find his birth and more info on Richard Snr and Sarah

Can anyone help me?

Paul
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 21 December 24 17:09 GMT (UK)
Try https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 21 December 24 17:17 GMT (UK)
You haven’t given any details of Richard’s birthyear or his fathers occupation

Try the 1901 & 1911 censuses available free

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 21 December 24 17:29 GMT (UK)
Alice L Shedden was b 1894 & the Patterson/Shedden marriage was 1914 in Ayrshire.    Was Richard born around the 1890’s? 

Is he on the Scottish 1911 census?

Bear this Irish 1901 in mind just in case

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPB2-NYV6

And this 1911

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7VQ-1ZB

Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: paul_mc on Saturday 21 December 24 19:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Carole

Thanks for helping out

I don't think either of them is him - But not sure

The wedding in 1914 is correct - That's where got his parents names from.

I've attached it so you can see

Richard and Alice are on the 1921 Census living at 45 Kyle Street, Glasgow but Richard isnt on any before that meaning that him and his parents must be in Cork - But i cant find all 3 of them in Cork either
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 21 December 24 19:19 GMT (UK)
Both Richard’s are seamen which makes it more difficult to find them on a census

He was 23 on the marriage cert so b around 1891
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: paul_mc on Saturday 21 December 24 19:22 GMT (UK)
Here's the 1921 census clip

Hopefully this is more accurate with ages

So would put him around 1885/1886
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 21 December 24 19:39 GMT (UK)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPB2-NYV6
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7VQ-1ZB
Those both redirect to FindMyPast, which is a subscription site.

The originals of the 1901 and 1911 censuses of Ireland are available free of charge on the National Archives of Ireland web site http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: paul_mc on Saturday 21 December 24 20:11 GMT (UK)
Thanks

I was able to view both but they are not what I am looking for - I don't think.
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 21 December 24 20:35 GMT (UK)
Possible birth in Cork in 1887-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02532/1937919.pdf

Added- parents marriage-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10854/5963142.pdf
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: paul_mc on Saturday 21 December 24 20:39 GMT (UK)
That fits in every way except for the mothers name - Jane McNaught - The marriage and death cert say Sarah Brown

Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 21 December 24 20:41 GMT (UK)
Yes, but I think it is worth checking further. Have added marriage to previous post.
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: paul_mc on Saturday 21 December 24 20:53 GMT (UK)
Ok I think you are on to something as too many coincidences

But now we have Jane Mcnaught and Sarah Brown - maybe he was married twice?
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 21 December 24 21:07 GMT (UK)
Have an idea which might fit but need to do some cross-checking.
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 21 December 24 22:19 GMT (UK)
Something to think about-

Alexander Patterson (c1832-14 Mar.1872 at Sundays Well) m.(1861) Sarah Christina Orpen (c1839-aft.1901)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1861/09608/5484313.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1872/020741/7276603.pdf (retired constable)
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/No_2_Urban__North_Centre/Parnell_Place/1110017/
? https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__5_Urban__part_of_/Hibernian_Buildings/398955/
1. Frances Christiana Patterson (1864-aft.1911) m.(1894) Robert Cassidy (c1870-aft.1901), accountant
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03590/2323475.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10583/5855548.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/No_2_Urban__North_Centre/Parnell_Place/1110016/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__2_Urban/Merchants_Quay/394004/
     a. Frances Cassidy (c1896-aft.1911)
     b. Robert Cassidy (c1897-aft.1911)
     c. Isabella Cassidy (c1899-aft.1911)
     d. Herbert Cassidy (c1901-aft.1911)
     e. Louisa Cassidy (c1903-aft.1911)
2. Marian Isabella/Isabella Patterson (1866 Ardmanning?-aft.1901)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03513/2292061.pdf
3. Matilda Orpen Patterson (1869 Sundays Well) m.(1902) David Ford Preston, accountant
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03402/2247460.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1902/10268/5736967.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Queenstown_No__2_Urban/Ringacoltig__part_of__Norwood_Villas/406011/
     a. David Henry Preston (1903)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1903/01873/1729357.pdf
     b. Ernest Orpen Preston (1905)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01778/1698960.pdf
4. Henry Brown Patterson (1870 Sundays Well)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03340/2224323.pdf
5. Richard Patterson, sailor, m.(27 Oct.1886) Jane/Jeannie McNaught
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10854/5963142.pdf (father- Alexander, RI Constable)
     a. Richard Patterson (26 Nov.1887 at 4 Paul St., Cork-aft.1901)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02532/1937919.pdf
1901 with grandmother Sarah Patterson
? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7VQ-1ZB

Can't find death for Jane (McNaught) Patterson but if she had died perhaps young Richard was raised by grandmother Sarah. Note that child born 1870 had middle name of Brown.
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: paul_mc on Sunday 22 December 24 00:59 GMT (UK)
This is really excellent.

Thank you so much for putting this together.

Sarahs surname could look like Brown when hand written.

The brown middle name is a thing

I guess Jane's death date would help



Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 22 December 24 07:04 GMT (UK)
Medal Card of Richard Patterson, Place of Birth Cork. Date of Birth: 1886

Various mercantile marine medals issued between 1919 and 1921
Medals issued to address 45 Townhead St. Glasgow

Is this address familiar?
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 22 December 24 07:38 GMT (UK)
There are Crew lists and shipping agreements for
Able Seaman Richard Patterson born 1861 Cork from about  1880  ‘til discharge in 1897.
Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 22 December 24 08:17 GMT (UK)

Quote
There are Crew lists and shipping agreements for
Able Seaman Richard Patterson born 1861 Cork from about  1880  ‘til discharge in 1897.

NAI Search
https://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/cl/index.jsp

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tjn/



Title: Re: RICHARD PATTERSON & SARAH BROWN
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 22 December 24 08:46 GMT (UK)
Thanks for adding the link to the seaman’s records.  :)
Title: Re: Richard PATTERSON & Sarah BROWN
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 23 December 24 22:20 GMT (UK)
I still can't find a death for Jane/Jeanie (McNaught) Patterson although I checked both Ireland, especially Cork, and Scotland. Her death might confirm or rule out that her son Richard Patterson is the one OP is looking for.
Title: Re: Richard PATTERSON & Sarah BROWN
Post by: paul_mc on Tuesday 24 December 24 19:47 GMT (UK)
I cant find one either - However I'm not very good at searching the Irish records..

Thanks for everything so far everyone
Title: Re: Richard PATTERSON & Sarah BROWN
Post by: paul_mc on Sunday 13 April 25 13:50 BST (UK)
Anyone fancy having a bash at finding Jane McNaught for me - I have looked at every option that I can think of. Given that her son Richard is living with his grandmother Sarah in 1901 I can only assume that she died before 1901 - As his father was a seaman its unlikely that he would take his wife with him right ?
Title: Re: Richard PATTERSON & Sarah BROWN
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 13 April 25 14:53 BST (UK)
Anyone fancy having a bash at finding Jane McNaught for me - I have looked at every option that I can think of. Given that her son Richard is living with his grandmother Sarah in 1901 I can only assume that she died before 1901 - As his father was a seaman its unlikely that he would take his wife with him right ?
My great-grandmother and great-great-grandmother both accompanied their husbands on voyages in the 1800s/early 1900s but their husbands were sea captains.
Have you searched for Jane in 1901 under initials if in an institution?

I still can't find a death for Jane/Jeanie (McNaught) Patterson although I checked both Ireland, especially Cork, and Scotland. Her death might confirm or rule out that her son Richard Patterson is the one OP is looking for.