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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Top-of-the-hill on Friday 20 December 24 14:29 GMT (UK)
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Our local history society has been given this picture of the workers on a local estate - part of a larger one. It includes 61 workers, who are almost all outdoor men. Apart from the Lady of the Manor (unimpressed!) there is only one woman. Then there is the man on the right of the mystery woman - butler? On the far right in the smaller picture is another man in a wing collar and black tie. I find it rather a puzzle. If it is a picture of the outdoor men, why the housekeeper(?) and butler(?). If they are included, why not the housemaids and indoor men? I suspect the picture was taken soon after they took up residence in1928.
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It looks to me like a Company photo.
Owner & wife + manager & secretary perhaps & employees.
61 seems a lot just working on an estate.
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It was quite a large estate, Jim.
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Does the 1921 census or, possibly the 1939, give any clues?
You'd probably have to look at a few houses/cottages in the village to get them all.
Gadget
PS I know you say it was 1928 but, surely, there would be some details of the estate on the 1921.
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I am not trying to identify the workers, just puzzled about the ones I mentioned - the woman and the men in black ties, don't seem to fit in.
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I didn't say identify by name.
I've just done a skim address search in the 1921 of the households around the Castle in the village where I grew up. There are many people with various employments working for the Castle ( employer name is the owner of the Castle) and living close by. It might take you a few hours to check but it's possible.
Gadget
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Very interesting photo.
Nearly six years ago (where did those years go?) I posted a photo which shows a similarly mixed group. https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=786359.0
Perhaps there are other examples out there.
Where was your photo taken?
(I've still had no luck discovering where my photo was taken)
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I see what you mean about the 1921 census, Gadget - as it gives employer and job title.
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I had a grandmother and some 2nd cousins working at the Castle but not all lived in, so it meant trawling threw households to find who worked there. Also, earlier, my grt grandmother worked at the Wynnstay estate in Ruabon.
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The man in a suit and woman behind the Lady of the Manor are probably the Agent, who would be overall in charge of the outdoor workers, and his wife. Properly a Land Agent, whose wife was expected to involve herself in estate matters, as appropriate. (My mother's cousin was one such wife c1950-1970.)
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Molly - the couple standing are the estate owners. I wondered if the 2 men in the second picture, next to the one who looks like a butler, might be the agents.
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So maybe the seated couple are the agent and wife. Our estate had a deputy agent. The other wing collar may have been deputy agent or a senior clerk the estate office. Older men in responsible office positions continued to wear wing collars until the 2ndWW.
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Older men in responsible office positions continued to wear wing collars until the 2ndWW.
THe women's outfits look late -1920 s- early 1930s ish
I;m trying to find a pic of my 2nd cousin who was a butler but so far he's gone to ground!)
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The man 2nd from right looks agent-ish. Ex-military seems to have been a useful part of an agent's CV.
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So it is beginning to seem that all the unexplained men (and one woman!) could be estate rather than household, which seems more logical.
Thanks everyone.