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Research in Other Countries => Immigrants & Emigrants - General => Topic started by: someonecalledkai on Sunday 15 December 24 22:35 GMT (UK)

Title: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: someonecalledkai on Sunday 15 December 24 22:35 GMT (UK)
Hi there!
My great great grandmother was called Rebecca Smith, and lived in the Acton area of London. She was born on the 24th May 1904 in Westminster, to a mother with the maiden name "Bierman".
My great grandfather (her son) always told my family that her parents were Ashkenazi Jew immigrants from Poland, Russia and the father's name was "Victor Schmidt/Schmitt" and changed his name to "Smith".
Myself and my family have scourged records, trying to find a trace of her parents/their immigration here but I can not find anything. I'm posting just to ask for any advice or any help on this matter?
My great-grandfather was always right about his family, and my Nan did a DNA test, confirming 20% Ashkenazi Jew.
Thanks!
Kai :)
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: Josephine on Sunday 15 December 24 22:52 GMT (UK)
Hi, Kai, and welcome to Rootschat.

Have you found Rebecca in the 1911 or 1921 census? Do you have her marriage record?

Which records have you already checked?
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: someonecalledkai on Sunday 15 December 24 23:27 GMT (UK)
Hello, thanks for replying!
I've found the 1939 Register, with her living with my great great grandfather, Samuel Darbon and their children in Acton. This document reveals her birthdate but not birthplace nor her parents. Annoyingly, no 1911 or 1921 census has Rebecca with a father called Victor Schmidtt/Smith (Something my great-grandad was very insistent about). There were a few contenders, but none with Victor/their birthplace being Poland, Russia.

In terms of a marriage certificate, I have the civil marriage in 1924 between herself and Samuel, but this didn't reveal anything about her parentage.
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: heywood on Sunday 15 December 24 23:31 GMT (UK)
Was there an occupation for Victor on the marriage certificate?

Added
Do you have her birth certificate?
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: someonecalledkai on Sunday 15 December 24 23:37 GMT (UK)
Hello,
Unfortunately, It was just a civil marriage, so there was no mention of her parents on there sadly. I'm getting the name Victor from my great Grandad who was insistent that was his name - "Victor Schmitt/Schmidtt/Smith".
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: heywood on Sunday 15 December 24 23:44 GMT (UK)
I think the father’s name and occupation are still shown on a civil marriage


https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

Shows a birth for Esther Smith 1906 mmn Bierman, Westminster and
Helena 1910, St Pancras besides your Rebecca.
Do you have her birth certificate?
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: heywood on Sunday 15 December 24 23:49 GMT (UK)
There is a marriage - 1903, Westminster
Bessie Bierman and Louis Smith. These are perhaps the parents of those girls.
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: heywood on Sunday 15 December 24 23:54 GMT (UK)
This is that family in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWLK-86N

Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: Neale1961 on Monday 16 December 24 00:03 GMT (UK)
Looks like that Bessie was the daughter of Noah Bierman from Poland

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9Z2-JRV
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: Neale1961 on Monday 16 December 24 00:07 GMT (UK)
Welcome Kai.

Do you have this birth certificate?
If so, can you please post what information it contains.

SMITH, REBECCA           mother - BIERMAN 
GRO Reference: 1904  J Quarter in WESTMINSTER  Volume 01A  Page 496

For just £3 you can get this digital certificate for immediate download. It really is necessary if you want to make progress.


Marriage certificate should have names and occupations of fathers, as well as names of witnesses.
It sounds like you don’t have any certificates yet?
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: Neale1961 on Monday 16 December 24 00:30 GMT (UK)
Helena 1910, St Pancras besides your Rebecca.


Helena belongs to a different couple ( Jenny Bierman and James Smith - marriage Mile End 1908)

But I think Jenny Bierman is from the same family as Bessie Bierman – ie the father is Noah Bierman from Poland
1891 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:3Y88-8ZM


Noah Bierman married to Rose van der Knapp (both born Poland / Russia)

Noah Bierman death 15 Jan 1922
Edmonton Federation Cemetery
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/158956118/noah-bierman


Rose Bierman death 8 Jan 1924
Edmonton Federation Cemetery
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/158955932/rose-bierman\
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: amondg on Monday 16 December 24 00:32 GMT (UK)
Have you tried the website Jewishgen, they will have records
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: amondg on Monday 16 December 24 00:43 GMT (UK)
Noah and Rosie Bierman born Russia/Poland had a daughter Jane(Janey)
she was enrolled in the Westminster Free Jews School her dob 5 October 1885 address 13 Old Compton Street.

This address is where the family were living in 1891. The name is spelled Behrmann in 1891
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: Neale1961 on Monday 16 December 24 02:12 GMT (UK)
Louis Smith (b. 7 May 1874) and wife Bessie (b. 16 Aug 1883) are in Hammersmith in 1939
With daughters Kathleen b. 1913 and Rosalind b. 1914



This is Louis (Lewis) Smith that Bessie Bierman married
With his family in 1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X98T-Y1D
His father Mark Smith and his mother Rebecca - both born in Poland
(Rebecca’s maiden name was Bloomfield)

Marriage 1870, City of London, Marks Smith to Rebecca Bloomfield.

Their first child (Maurice Smith) born 1871. A big family followed.
Children have enrolments in the Westminster Jew’s Free School

Lewis’s younger brother James married Bessie’s sister, Jenny Bierman.

It looks as if a lot of the names in this family have been Anglicised, so Jewish names may be quite different.

1871 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRJG-SZS

1881 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q279-BDZY

1891 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:35Z3-JPZ

1911 census - the family is in Shepherds Bush
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: someonecalledkai on Monday 16 December 24 14:09 GMT (UK)
Hi there, some really useful information here, thank you all!
I'm relatively new to this, and I mistakingly believed what FindMyPast displayed of the civil marriage was all there was. I shall buy the certificate from GRO to get her father's name and occupation and the rest.
I believe that birth record I found in 1904 with Bierman may be false, if we follow the Louis Smith and Bessie Bierman line. It's just that my great grandad was 100% sure his name was Victor not Loius.

By finding this marriage certificate, I can confirm if his name really was Victor. If it was, I shall have to continue my search. However, if it was Louis and he was wrong, I can use all the brilliant documents you've found! Thank you again, as there's a lot here, I just need to sort out the Victor or Louis thing first, out of respect for what my great grandad's said.
Thank you again for the cerificate advice, I shall be buying many now for other aspects of my tree where I lack information :D
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: Neale1961 on Monday 16 December 24 14:19 GMT (UK)
If you look at the 1904 birth certificate, it will give you her exact date of birth, which you can then compare with the date of birth you have from the 1939 register.
Of course it will also give parents’ names.
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: Josephine on Monday 16 December 24 14:45 GMT (UK)
That's great, Kai! I knew Rootschatters would be able to help point you in the right direction!

I hope you will post an update after you get the marriage record.
Title: Re: Rebbeca Smith of Ashkenazi Jews
Post by: amondg on Monday 16 December 24 18:11 GMT (UK)
Perhaps you will find that Louis' father was Victor, stories handed down always have the truth in there somewhere.