RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: polpringle on Monday 09 December 24 18:55 GMT (UK)
-
I tried to find my grandad a while ago and ended up giving up because there was no birth certificate (I have previous posts on here but not sure how to link sorry)
I thought the 1921 census might throw up some clues but sadly not.
He was in the army (my aunt contacted them some years ago) and they've said his birth date is 21/08/1917 born Cardiff would he have had to show a birth certificate to join?
On the 1939 register he said it was 21/08/1915
His name is Alexander Truelove married to Edna potter 1941 father on his marriage cert Stephen Malcolm potter deceased.
Also on the 1939 register Edna has her name potter crossed out and changed to Truelove but there is also Jones next to it?
Any help appreciated thank you
-
On 1939 register, women's surnames were updated as they married and remarried.
What names witnessed the marriage?
-
Previous thread:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=693300.
-
When Alexander married he gives his name as Alexander M Truelove. There is an Alexander M Hodgson born in 3rd quarter of 1917 in Cardiff that maybe a possibility, if there was any reason for a name change. Maybe his mother remarried?
Added: just read the previous post and see you've already looked at this birth!
-
He was in the army (my aunt contacted them some years ago) and they've said his birth date is 21/08/1917 born Cardiff would he have had to show a birth certificate to join?
The simple answer is no. Prior to 1 January 1962 no proof of date of birth was required for adults enlisting in either the Regular or Reserve Army. However anyone who declared his age to be under 18 (later 17.5) was required to provide a birth certificate, although I can't say when this requirement was first instituted. Below is an extract from Annex A to Chapter 9 of Queen's Regulations 1975 on the matter:Adult Soldiers
2. Before 1 January 1962 the age declared by a recruit on first attestation for the Regular Army, Royal Marines, Army Reserve, Supplementary Reserve, Army Emergency Reserve, Territorial Army or TAVR is taken to be the official age for that or any subsequent enlistment into any of those forces, subject to:
a. The exceptions given in para 3.
b. The age recorded having actually been declared by the recruit and not being merely a record of their apparent age.
3. The following are the exceptions to the general rule stated in para 2:
a. In certain circumstances which are specified in the appropriate regulations and instructions, age is to be determined from the soldier's birth certificate.
b. Where a recruit on enlistment or re-enlistment into the Regular Army declares their age to be under the minimum age for adult service, their official age is to be determined from the particulars shown on their birth certificate and no account is to be taken of the age declared on any previous attestation.
-
Thank you for all replies.
For Edna's marriage to Alexander the witnesses were relatives of Edna's. She always kept the name Truelove but I wondered why it also had Jones written.
Thank you for adding the link (I am not tech savvy in anyway)
Yes looked at Hodgson and was a dead end.
Damnit re the birth certificate for the army.
I think I'm chasing my tail, just every few years I try to find relatives on my paternal side that were fractured. With the help of this site I've managed to re unite my dad with 2 sisters that were adopted out, sadly I think his dad will remain a mystery 😔
-
For Edna's marriage to Alexander the witnesses were relatives of Edna's. She always kept the name Truelove but I wondered why it also had Jones written.
It implies that at some point she was known as Jones.
-
Not much help.[ Amended] Did he leave the family at some point?
Birmingham Weekly dated 25 April 1965
Listed under lost relatives
Alexander Malcolm Truelove, Seen in Birmingham the last two years thought to be working in the are.
Son enquires.
-
Alexander Malcolm Truelove died 15 July 1981 address 52 Tudor Street Cardiff
Probate was 25 September 1984.
Appears to be an Administration rather than a will. A copy would tell you who the administrator was.
-
Not much help.[ Amended] Did he leave the family at some point?
Birmingham Weekly dated 25 April 1965
Listed under lost relatives
Alexander Malcolm Truelove, Seen in Birmingham the last two years thought to be working in the are.
Son enquires.
Yes the family became fractured and my father and siblings were put into a children's home, they lost complete contact with their father Alexander and their mother moved away and continued to have children whom she then adopted out. He had brief contact with her years later but things were never discussed sadly.
-
Alexander Malcolm Truelove died 15 July 1981 address 52 Tudor Street Cardiff
Probate was 25 September 1984.
Appears to be an Administration rather than a will. A copy would tell
you who the administrator was.
In 1983 I think it was my auntie looked for him and found that he had passed. We have the name of the person who registered the death, the surname of whom I think holds some significance "Cosslette" as there is a photo of him in his army uniform and that name is also on the back of the photo
-
hi
Having read the other thread...
Have you considered that you may already have the correct birth certificate...malcolm and mallen could both be shortened to 'Mal' or could be misheard and assumed to be malcolm.
What about obtaining the marriage cert of Gladys M Truelove [Swansea 1950] to see her fathers name.
Have you traced Isabella Hodgson in 1921 and beyond?
M
-
Ernest, Isabella and children including Alexander can be found on the 1939 register
Archive reference RG101/4010A/003/11
-
Cardiff electoral rolls have an Alexandre M Trulove living in Cardiff.
In 1978 Aleck Truelove is at 52 Tudor street, other occupants surname Coslett.
Cathy
Added... have removed first names in case still living.
-
Cardiff electoral rolls have an Alexandre M Trulove living in Cardiff.
In 1978 he is at 52 Tudor street, other occupants ----deleted may still be alive
Be careful Cathy, those you have named are probably still alive looking at birth registrations.
SS
-
Cardiff electoral rolls have an Alexandre M Trulove living in Cardiff.
In 1978 he is at 52 Tudor street, other occupants xxx Coslett.
Cathy
Be careful Cathy, those you have named are probably still alive looking at birth registrations.
SS
Still showing on your quote #14
-
Post altered-doh
SS
-
His name is Alexander Truelove married to Edna potter 1941 father on his marriage cert Stephen Malcolm potter deceased.
Should that be Stephen Malcolm Truelove :-\
-
His name is Alexander Truelove married to Edna potter 1941 father on his marriage cert Stephen Malcolm potter deceased.
Should that be Stephen Malcolm Truelove :-\
Yes 🤦🏻♀️
-
Here are my suggestions.
You have two possible dates of birth for him. Have you contacted the churches in the area where he was born in case he was baptized?
Have you contacted the funeral home, and the cemetery where he was buried, to see if either of them has anything on file?
Do you know what children's home his children were placed in after he left and whether or not there are any records still on file?
I'm confused by the father's name on his marriage record. Was his father Alexander Malcolm, who was a potter by trade? Or was his father Alexander Malcolm Potter?
Good luck in your research.
-
Thank you everyone, I hadn't considered that Mallen may of been the right birth certificate but as they're all on the 1939 register it seems that is out too 😞
Those are the people he was living with and they registered his death
-
Alexander Malcolm Truelove died 15 July 1981 address 52 Tudor Street Cardiff
Probate was 25 September 1984.
Appears to be an Administration rather than a will. A copy would tell
you who the administrator was.
The person who registered the death, the surname of whom I think holds some significance "Cosslette" as there is a photo of him in his army uniform and that name is also on the back of the photo
This sounds like a similar situation to one in my family.
My close relative's E & W Death Registration, matches his marriage surname, but he took another surname before marriage.
We have a photo of him in the Army inter-war period. We also have a headed Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry (DCLI) letter reference when he left the Army in 1936, which uses his Birth Surname and a Medal Box sent later from Infantry (which has his death name and address on). His forename was always Thomas.
We can't get any close Irish Birth dates to match exactly his Birth date given at death and he never mentioned his Irish Birthplace.
The Army Records at Glasgow accept my relative had AKA names, but waiting for Army files (Glasgow) to show up on TNA, catalogue.
-
Here are my suggestions.
You have two possible dates of birth for him. Have you contacted the churches in the area where he was born in case he was baptized?
Have you contacted the funeral home, and the cemetery where he was buried, to see if either of them has anything on file?
Do you know what children's home his children were placed in after he left and whether or not there are any records still on file?
I'm confused by the father's name on his marriage record. Was his father Alexander Malcolm, who was a potter by trade? Or was his father Alexander Malcolm Potter?
Good luck in your research.
I've not looked at churches as we have no birth certificate so don't actually know where he was born, it is starting to seem likely that he made up his name and his fathers.
His fathers name on marriage cert is Stephen Malcolm Truelove (there are 2 of them but they lead nowhere) his wife's maiden name was Potter
-
I've not looked at churches as we have no birth certificate so don't actually know where he was born, it is starting to seem likely that he made up his name and his fathers.
His fathers name on marriage cert is Stephen Malcolm Truelove (there are 2 of them but they lead nowhere) his wife's maiden name was Potter
I thought the Army said he was born in Cardiff?
-
I've not looked at churches as we have no birth certificate so don't actually know where he was born, it is starting to seem likely that he made up his name and his fathers.
His fathers name on marriage cert is Stephen Malcolm Truelove (there are 2 of them but they lead nowhere) his wife's maiden name was Potter
I thought the Army said he was born in Cardiff?
Yes they did but they also said his birth date was 1917 and in the 1939 register Alexander said it was 1915
A birthday certificate apparently wasn't needed to join the army so it's only what Alexander stated
-
It wasn't unusual for men to lie about their age or date of birth when enlisting.
I think Cardiff is a lead worth pursuing.
You could also try to get in touch with people connected to the Cosletts who were seemingly a part of his life.
It all depends on how much time and energy you want to put into it.
-
Alexander Malcolm Truelove died 15 July 1981 address 52 Tudor Street Cardiff
Probate was 25 September 1984.
Appears to be an Administration rather than a will. A copy would tell
you who the administrator was.
In 1983 I think it was my auntie looked for him and found that he had passed. We have the name of the person who registered the death, the surname of whom I think holds some significance "Cosslette" as there is a photo of him in his army uniform and that name is also on the back of the photo
You could also try to get in touch with people connected to the Cosletts who were seemingly a part of his life.
It all depends on how much time and energy you want to put into it.
If "Cosslette" was on the back of his photo, and also the surname of the Informant at death and if helpful, their family are more likely to have information?
-
Thank you everyone for taking the time to look and help, I will delve into some of the suggestions 🤞🏻