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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: stevelord65 on Thursday 05 December 24 07:59 GMT (UK)

Title: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: stevelord65 on Thursday 05 December 24 07:59 GMT (UK)
Found this in the Balmain Observer and Western Suburbs Advertiser from 8th June 1889:

"Thomas Robison for being drunk and disorderly, was ordered to hand over 10s, 4s 10d costs, or do 48 hours"

I have a hunch this could be my Great Great Grandfather, am wondering if there are any court or police records available anywhere that might give more details?

Thanks,
Steve, Auckland NZ
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: sparrett on Friday 06 December 24 03:06 GMT (UK)
I don't see any further information at the usual sources for this offence.

There is an offence for a man of the same name in 1895.
He was released on bail from Darlinghurst Gaol on a charge of false Pretences.

Are you seeking more general information on him, or just this particular event?

Sue
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 06 December 24 03:21 GMT (UK)


This is not a criminal offence....no need for witness statements, prosecutor making a case etc.
Any court record would give very little information.

Who are you looking for?

Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: shume on Friday 06 December 24 05:25 GMT (UK)
There is a death notice for a Thomas Robison, died 1920 Granville, Sydney parents Robert and Annie.
Is this your man?
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: stevelord65 on Friday 06 December 24 06:30 GMT (UK)
Yes shume that's him :) I was hoping that court records might give me an address for him and maybe his profession.
He arrived in Australia in 1874 aged about 34 leaving a wife and two children back in England, and died in Rookwood asylum, Sydney in 1920. I have no idea where he was or what he was doing in the 46 years in between...     
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 06 December 24 08:18 GMT (UK)
Do you have the 1920 death certificate? What does it have for his occupation?
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: shume on Friday 06 December 24 08:28 GMT (UK)
Whoever gave the information on his death certificate knew his parents names ( unless he gave the asylum this information when admitted). Have you traced his wife or other members of the family as the Rookwood cemetery has an additional 3 Robison burials. Its quite an unusual name.
He gives his occupation on passenger list 1874 as farmer: Do you know where he lived on 1871 UK census as this helps with background, wife's name etc.
Rookwood asylum patient records are closed for 110 yrs from 1919 according to NSW State records.
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: stevelord65 on Friday 06 December 24 08:47 GMT (UK)
Thomas's wife Mary-Jane, her son Robert, and her daughter Elizabeth (my great grandmother), all stayed behind in England. In 1871 Thomas and family were living at 1 Grove road, Liverpool, his occupation was cattle salesman. I think I've found him on a passenger list arriving in Melbourne in July 1874, but am not totally certain that was him (name & age match but no other details are given)
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: stevelord65 on Friday 06 December 24 08:54 GMT (UK)
Actually his 1920 death certificate lists occupation as cattle salesman doesn't it... So it's a reasonable assumption that that's what he was doing the whole time he was in Australia.
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 06 December 24 08:55 GMT (UK)
Not anywhere near Balmain, however there is a Thomas ROBISON of Watercourse, Moree registering a  cattle brand in 1890. (Of course, the drunk and disorderly in Balmain doesn't necessarily mean he was living there.)

eg:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/223597559/14006196
(page 1764, under "T")
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: shume on Saturday 07 December 24 00:59 GMT (UK)
The 1861 UK census has Thomas father Robert as a cattle dealer/salesman as is Thomas. 1871 census has Thomas as cattlesalesman , Liverpool, so most likely the Thomas Robison on the 1874 passenger list as Farmer would be him. Whoever wrote the passenger list would hear Cattle and decided to write Farmer?
Can't find him on any census 1890/1901/1910 in Aus so he may have worked for a stock agent and travelled around NSW.
Any suggestions as to why his wife and child didn't come to Aus? Someone knew his parents names when the information was given on his death cert.
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: stevelord65 on Saturday 07 December 24 03:16 GMT (UK)
The story that's been handed down to us is that Thomas was an alcoholic so the family gave him some money and sent him to Australia. His wife died in Scotland in 1896, but I've no idea if he ever remarried.
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: shume on Saturday 07 December 24 07:01 GMT (UK)
Many older men died from senile decay i.e. dementia and were placed in Asylums. Perhaps his drinking was a factor but still a sad state of affairs if true.
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: maddys52 on Saturday 07 December 24 08:32 GMT (UK)
Doesn't help with his time in Australia, but you may have seen these advertisements eg:
Saturday,  Jan. 20, 1872
Publication: Isle Of Man Times

He was also nominated for a constable for West Derby in 1871
Saturday,  Feb. 18, 1871
Publication: Liverpool Mercury
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: stevelord65 on Saturday 07 December 24 19:59 GMT (UK)
Thanks so much for that maddys52 :)
Can I ask you how you found the one from the Liverpool Mercury, about being nominated as a constable?
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 07 December 24 23:11 GMT (UK)
Hi.
If we take "suceeded to the business" to mean taken over, which I believe to be the correct meaning of the term, then this little snip is of interest.

December 1874.
Looks like Robert ROBISON has resumed the management of the business by this description of him..
Sorry I cannot add more from the item. (No sub)
Perhaps we see the "sending away " of Thomas in the intervening couple of years which fits with his 1874 arrival.

Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: maddys52 on Sunday 08 December 24 00:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks sparrett, you're right - I didn't notice Robert seems to be in charge again - although this one says he is a sheep dealer. Is it the same business?  :-\
4 April 1874
Publication: Liverpool Weekly courier
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: maddys52 on Sunday 08 December 24 00:35 GMT (UK)
Thanks so much for that maddys52 :)
Can I ask you how you found the one from the Liverpool Mercury, about being nominated as a constable?

I generally look up old newspapers using my Australian National Library Card which gives me access from home to their eresources. These include Gale Primary Sources, which includes British Library Newspapers. which is where the Liverpool Mercury reference was.

I also look up newspapers using findmypast, though I don't have a subscription. They have some newspapers available to view for free (eg the snip above), but also a pay per view option.
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: maddys52 on Sunday 08 December 24 00:42 GMT (UK)
Here is a clip showing the constable nomination:
Saturday,  Feb. 18, 1871
Publication: Liverpool Mercury
Title: Re: Drunk and disorderly: further info?
Post by: stevelord65 on Sunday 08 December 24 04:04 GMT (UK)
Yes it does look like Robert came out of retirement after Thomas was sent away, and yes must have been involved in sheep also. When Maddy's article says he bought sheep in Scotland to sell in Liverpool, that makes sense because he was originally from Annan Scotland and obviously still had connections there.