RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Imcarthur67 on Tuesday 03 December 24 18:10 GMT (UK)

Title: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: Imcarthur67 on Tuesday 03 December 24 18:10 GMT (UK)
I have reached an impass trying to find out what happened to John Wylie (Wiley) after his marriage to Jane Moffett (Moffit/Moffatt) in Kilbroney, Down, Ireland in 1851. They have 3 sons in Ireland, William, Joseph and Hugh. A fourth son is born in Chorlton-upon-Medlock, England in 1868, Patrick. The 1871 census only mentions Jane and the 4 children, and I cannot establish what happened to John Wiley, did he travel to England or did something happen to him. I am also having difficulty finding his birth in Ireland, it could be 1829 or 1834. Any help would be appreciated.

Ian
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 03 December 24 18:38 GMT (UK)
Do you have Patrick’s birth details? What is John’s occupation?
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: Pennines on Tuesday 03 December 24 19:06 GMT (UK)
Also - have you found Jane in 1881 please? She is shown as married in 1871.

I see she is a widow by 1891 - but I can't see her in 1881.
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: Imcarthur67 on Tuesday 03 December 24 19:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Patrick was born 16 Jan 1868 in Chorlton. Address 13 Upper Chatham Street, Chorlton-upon-Medlock.
I have been told by a relative that John was an apprentice Tailor, but I have my doubts where this came from, as he appeared on a census in Scotland in Carsphairn aged 15, but I am unsure this is the same John Wiley.
No I haven't found Jane in 1881, sorry
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 03 December 24 19:54 GMT (UK)
No, I can’t find the family in 1881 either.
Is John named on the birth certificate with an occupation or do you not have it?
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: Imcarthur67 on Tuesday 03 December 24 20:25 GMT (UK)
I only got a digital copy of Patricks birth certificateI have a digital copy of Patricks Birth, it won’t let me copy it, but details are as follows:

Born 19th Jan 1868
Born 13 Chatham Street Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Jane Wylie formerly Moffatt
Father John Wylie
Fathers profession is A Tailor
Signed by the Mother, interesting!!
Residence 13 Chatham Street Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Registered 27th Feb 1868

Made me suspect that John wasn't with Jane when Patrick was born, did he travel to England??
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 03 December 24 21:19 GMT (UK)
In 1871 3992 /103/19
William is 19 yrs, Hugh, 17yrs, Joseph 9 yrs and Patrick is 3 yrs.
I wondered if Patrick might not be John’s son due to the age. There is quite a gap between Joseph and the older boys but there is a baptism for Joseph in Kilbroney.
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: Imcarthur67 on Wednesday 04 December 24 08:30 GMT (UK)
I have Joseph baptised in Kilbroney 26 June 1862. William and Hugh  I cannot find a birth or baptism, only a reference to their dates of birth as abt 1852 and abt 1854 respectively.
Is that normal not to find records in Ireland or even on a census?

Patrick is born 18 Jan 1868, I think we have his baptism as 22 Mar 1868, the entry states Isaac Patrick Wiley. John is mentioned on it also as Joannis et Joanne Wiley (olim Moffit) Godfather Hugh Wiley. So I am assuming this is the same Patrick, but strange the large gap between birth and baptism.
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 04 December 24 10:09 GMT (UK)
Patrick was born 16 Jan 1868 in Chorlton. Address 13 Upper Chatham Street, Chorlton-upon-Medlock.

There are some Chorlton rate books entries for John Wylie in Upper Chatham Street.
1867
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-61HD-H4

June 1868. Is there a note at the end?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6GFR-N4

November 1868
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6259-WLM
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 04 December 24 10:22 GMT (UK)
That’s a great find, jonwarrn.
So in June, the note says ‘Removed not found’, yet November, there is an entry but no note.

Added
In 1871, Jane is in John Street, in the same area as Chatham Street
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 04 December 24 10:47 GMT (UK)
So in June, the note says ‘Removed not found’, yet November, there is an entry but no note.

Hi heywood
Thank you.
Yes, I find that puzzling too!

There could be another son of John and Jane, baptised in Dublin
10 October 1859
Thomas Michael Wiley.
Jane's maiden name is given
Right down the bottom (also free on findmypast)
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000633490#page/133/mode/1up

So maybe as well
Mary Anne Wyly, 14 April 1856
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000633487#page/152/mode/1up
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: Imcarthur67 on Wednesday 04 December 24 11:37 GMT (UK)
Thank you jonwarn and heywood for your help it is much appreciated. I will pick through the information given.
I have just come across an entry for a John Wylie in Lancashire Quarter Session records in Preston, April 1870, for the offence of felony. Sentenced to 1 year.
Is it possible that offences committed in Manchester would be tried in Preston? If so could this explain why he goes missing?
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 04 December 24 17:52 GMT (UK)
There are a couple of records, 1868 and 1870 for John Wylie. He was born 1848/49 and whilst both Salford and Manchester are mentioned, he was an ‘Engine Tenter’ by occupation.
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 04 December 24 17:52 GMT (UK)
Thank you jonwarn and heywood for your help it is much appreciated. I will pick through the information given.
I have just come across an entry for a John Wylie in Lancashire Quarter Session records in Preston, April 1870, for the offence of felony. Sentenced to 1 year.
Is it possible that offences committed in Manchester would be tried in Preston? If so could this explain why he goes missing?

That John is “a young man” charged with robbing his mother Ann living at Meadow Street. (Newspaper account)
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: Imcarthur67 on Thursday 05 December 24 18:33 GMT (UK)
I have found a newspaper article from the Newry Herald and Down, Armagh, and Louth journal Jan 17th 1860, application for a spirit license in Rostrevor granted for John Willey.
Rostrevor is where Jane and John were married in 1851.
Is there any way of finding out what the establishment was?
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: Imcarthur67 on Thursday 05 December 24 18:47 GMT (UK)
Can anyone decipher the entry for 21st June 1829, possible this is John Wylie's baptism but difficult to read.
http://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000633286#page/1/mode/1up
Title: Re: John Wylie Chorlton-upon-Medlock
Post by: Lambendsor (aka IGS) on Friday 06 December 24 14:10 GMT (UK)
Maybe: "John Wiley of Jno. Wiley & Catharine Rockwood sprs. John Donnelly & Margaret [Cony? Comy? Corry?]"