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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Crabbit24 on Friday 29 November 24 10:18 GMT (UK)
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We have been researching 9 signatures on a cigarette case gifted to a pilot of the British Air Navigation Company in 1934, the flip side shows a list of British Aircraft Registrations that they flew. The company operated from 1932 to '35 and folded in '37.
There is one signature that eludes us. It starts J.A. or I.A. or even H. None of the usual surnames seem to line up with the signature.
3 of the other signatures are of note:
Lord Emherst. Journalist, Pilot & Director of B.E.A. in the 1960's
T.W. Morton. Flew the Croydon-Le-Bourget run with Amy Johnston, Chief test pilot for LAP Halifax production during WW2 & started Morton Air service in 1945.
V.E. Flowerday. B.A. pilot that brought Chamberlain, & his piece of paper, back from Munich, Squadron Leader & OBE.
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Forgot to add the bigger pic!
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Caters perhaps?
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Can't help with that, as some of the personal flourishes are quite extensive. I see Casarto / Asarto
but there doesn't appear to be anyone by that name associated with the group.
For anyone searching for images, though ( see the names below) this publication appears to have a photo of the men. I'm guessing The Page - "CHARLIE" was the person to whom the case was given. Not sure what a page's duty might have been. Perhaps Attendant?
A BANCO GROUP - The names from left to right are : J. W. Spinner ( Traffic Clerk ) , H. C. Coysh ( Managing Director ) , H. C. D. Hayter ( pilot ) , T. H. Chamberlain ( Traffic Superintendent ) , V. E. Flowerday ( pilot ) , S. M. Ferguson ( pilot ) and Charlie the page
The Aeroplane - Volume 47 https://books.google.ca/books
( changed as url didn't work - sad, as I'm sure descendants would have liked to buy a view)
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J A Easterbrook
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Thank you all,
I will have to try and source a copy of The Aeroplane, Vol 47, page 260.
The list of planes on the case are mostly 3 seaters (Pilot +2) apart from the Dh84 dragon & the tri-motor so no capacity of a page. Also the list on that case is only part of the BANCo fleet. One of the listed is owned by Mr Hayter.
Of the list of names I have for BANCo so far, Spinner, Chamberlain & the page Charlie are new.
I also have:
S.J. Dupe (mechanical staff),
I.C. Macglichrist (chairman),
A.J. Styran,(Pilot & partner)
Flt-Lt John George Denholm Armour,(pilot)
Capt C.D. Barnard.(pilot)
S M Ferguson,F (pilot)
F/O Herbert Cecil Douglas Rex Hayter (pilot & plane owner)
Capt Newman (pilot)
Mr. L.J. Rimmer, (Lancelot John) (pilot)
Capt Nevil Stack (Not sure is part of BANCO)(pilot & all round celebrity)
Mr Sydney Lane Foster St Barbe (pilot)
Mr Nigel.T. Tangye (pilot & famed author)
LS Whicher,(pilot)
Mr. C.B. Wilson (pilot)
As well as the case names.
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Caters & Easterbrook? Too short & long respectively.
Also they failed to show any aviation related searches.
We have another question.
what we think is Bobby Coysh may be Babby Coysh?
Comm Humphrey Cecil Coysh had a sister, Barbara D. Coysh.
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My surname is long, but you’d never know that by looking at my signature! 😁
J A Easterbrook is the name of a 20th C researcher into psychological and behavioural influences on an aviator’s performance…seems feasible that he was associated in some way with these men.
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Parallel thread on another web forum:
https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/662207-british-air-navigation-company-cigarette-case-2.html
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I noticed that too, ShaunJ and was going to post a url as well. Always good to know, Crabbit, in case of duplication of resources. Also, this is a handwriting help section, so people will be putting in their opinions as replies, as requested. I also noted your addition of Barbara Coysh who also wasn't known to be an aviator...However, neither was Lois White.
In case others from BANCO followed him there...
"On May 30 1935, at Heston Airport, there was a move to get together traffic managers of independent air-line operators. Mr. T. H. Chamberlain, of North Eastern Airways, Ltd. (London Edinburgh service) ..."
adding:
Note a lot of the names were well-to-do with titles & obvious interest in aviation. But then one needed to be well off to own a plane.
Saw you'd had some of this info from the other forrum, but am posting anyway for others searching
Percy Ronald Gardener Bernard (5th Earl of Bandon ) married Lois White in 1935
( actually marriage was in - 1946 Percy R G Berbard & Lois Russel White )
daughter of Francis Russell of Victoria, Australia
Her first husband was Sq-Ldr. Frederick Arthur White (Marr 1924 St Geo Hanover Sq)
https://landedfamilies.blogspot.com/2024/10/
I'm sure the suggested Charles Douglas Barnard (1895 – 1971) British pilot
1920s of air races & record-breaking flights fame, was also related somehow.
- Marriage Mar 1919 Kensington Humphrey C Coysh to Scott-Montagu
- Montagu Eve O S (Eve Olivia Scott-Montagu)
Husband's petition for divorce one year later1920
Divorce Court File: 9555. Appellant: Humphrey Coysh. Respondent: Eve Olivia Coysh.
;D 1940 RAF "Officers who succeed to peerages, baronetcies, or courtesy titles are responsible for immediately notifying the same to the Under Secretary"
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Well spotted Shaun and a lot more info there,
Its a good source of info for the aviation side.
afleetingpeace.org for the golden age of flying.
airhistory.org.uk for the aircraft registrations.
gracesguide.co.uk/1933_Who%27s_Who_in_British_Aviation for the people.
Internet archive: Flight internationals for the stories.
British newspaper archive for the weddings & court cases & BANCo adverts.
The Gazette for official appointments & bankrupts.
unithistories.com for WW2 positions.
Airlinehistory.co.uk for the logo & info
various sources for the pictures of the actual aircraft involved.
This cigarette case has become the classic 5 minute job, with more than a few surprises along the way.
And were still not sure who Charlie is!
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Hello J.J.
The handwriting expertise is what I am seeking in this forum. Giving its a "Nobs" hobby, theres a chance the surname will be obscure.
Capt Charles Bernard did fly with BANCo who used his Famous Fokker "spyder" but his dates with the India Air Circus and the lack of the Fokkers reg on the case takes him out of the running.
There were a couple of C.B. Wilson aviators. An Army Capt Charles B Wilson M.C. & RAF Flt lt Charles Bernard Wilson that I know of. Although theres a few Charles Bernard Wilsons around at the time.
F.A. White, was a Lloyds underwriter, when he got his pilots licence from the Royal Aero Club Dec '29. then in the RAF Accounts dept during WW2. The divorce articles mentions happy marriage until Lois's "infatuation" with Bandon in '42. F.A. continued with the B.A.O.R. in 46 and died in Kenya in the early 50's.
Lois White got her R.A.C. wings, also at Hanworth club and in a DH cirrus moth III in Sept '30.
I can see nothing in R.A.C. or British newspaper archives, for the possible Barbara (Babby) or Robert (Bobby) Coysh.
The collecting of Traffic Managers is a new one for me. Is that the start of the national Air Traffic Control?
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How wonderful that Lois got her wings! Was just trying to point something out, though...
Caters & Easterbrook? Too short & long respectively.
Also they failed to show any aviation related searches.
You may have to accept that "Charlie" may not have been a pilot...but just that ordinary fellow who didn't even merit a last name for the photo.
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The research has been on going for only a couple of months. In that time we have uncovered a lot of info on people and planes of BANCo, which has been shared with some historic aviation sites specific to that era.
The engraved aircraft registrations on the case are part of the BANCo fleet not all.
If it were ground or office staff, it would be all their aircraft, unless they had joy rides on these specific ones. Heston was their main hub and a lot of the flights were air taxi for the press as well as the casino/races runs to Le Touquet & Deauville, it could have been given to a loyal business customer.
"Charlie" may remain a mystery for now, but its early days, no different from researching the family trees. (Stalled one day, resolved another, hopefully!) Someone may find this thread in a couple of years and add the missing pieces.. or laugh.
Meanwhile there is a 20 page story & pics (Provenance?) to go with the 90year old cig case which gives it some life.